rfg@NCD.COM (Ron Guilmette) (09/08/90)
In article <1990Sep6.194543.7685@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >howell@bert.llnl.gov (Louis Howell) writes: >>xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: > >...But what has made FORTRAN so valuable to the (hard) engineering >profession is exactly that the "dusty decks" still run. I doubt >that the originators of FORTRAN envisioned _at_that_time_ a set >of applications software that would outlast the century being >written with the first compilers, but so it has proved... Now you've done it! I feel that insatiable sense of curiousity creeping up on me again! Please forgive me. I know this doesn't really belong in comp.std.c++, but... Has anybody other than me ever wondered: What's the oldest line of code in existance (in source form) that is still in production use? (For the sake of argument, let's define `production use' as regular use with a frequency of no less that one time each year.) Anybody got any clues to this Software Archeological mystery? Perhaps I should start a serious expedition. I can see it now. Dr. Leaky, Jean Sammett, and I, out there wandering the open savanas and (White?) plains, occasionally descending deep gorges... descending back over countless zillions of milliseconds... in search of the One True `missing link' of the software world... the oldest living specimen of an original line of code. As any historian will tell you, we can't know where we are going if we don't know where we have been. How can we know how long the code we write today may last if we are not even sure how long code has lasted up until now? Do we build a house forever? Seriously, if anybody knows of very ancient lines of (unmodified and unmaintained) code that are still in production use, please send me some E-mail about it. After a couple of weeks, I'll post a follow-up to comp.compilers describing/announcing the oldest reported line. >... Unlike the middle '50's, >today we have a plethora of highly experienced compiler writers >to guide our projects... My legendary modesty prevents me from accepting this compliment, but thanks anyway. :-) :-) >As Ron noted, C "allows" arbitrary amounts of padding between >fields in a structure... Actually, Roland McGrath made that (perfectly correct) observation. >... but "nobody" does anything but the sensible >single or double word alignment padding. I was responsible for that comment though. >Peace? Yes. Now if we can just get the Big and Little Endians to crack their eggs from the same end, all we'll have left to do is to teach the Arabs not to covet thy neighbor's shipping ports, gold, crude, ... -- // Ron Guilmette - C++ Entomologist // Internet: rfg@ncd.com uucp: ...uunet!lupine!rfg // Motto: If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway.
howell@bert.llnl.gov (Louis Howell) (09/10/90)
This started in comp.std.c++, I'm starting the cross-post to a.f.c: In article <1479@lupine.NCD.COM>, rfg@NCD.COM (Ron Guilmette) writes: |> [A bunch of stuff about ancient programs still in use.] |> Seriously, if anybody knows of very ancient lines of (unmodified and |> unmaintained) code that are still in production use, please send me |> some E-mail about it. After a couple of weeks, I'll post a follow-up |> to comp.compilers describing/announcing the oldest reported line. This thread was covered in detail in alt.folklore.computers back in July. I saved most of the discussion, but won't post it here due to length. The main contenders were various numerics programs dating back to Fortran II, some of which I have used, and the theorem prover in the Lisp 1.5 programmers manual (c. 1960). As far as the languages are concerned, most of Lisp 1.5 is still legal Common Lisp, and a couple of functions that are not in Common Lisp can easily be defined by the user. Except for a few machine-dependent commands, almost all of Fortran II is still legal Fortran 77. Fortran II is essentially Fortran I with the addition of "modern" looking functions and subroutines, so though some Fortran I code is probably still legal Fortran 77, I seriously doubt if it is still being used. Of course, some Fortran I code could have been incorporated unchanged into a Fortran II subroutine, and that could still be in use... This thread really belongs in a.f.c, not comp.compilers. Please bear this in mind, Ron, when you post your winners. -- Louis Howell "A few sums!" retorted Martens, with a trace of his old spirit. "A major navigational change, like the one needed to break us away from the comet and put us on an orbit to Earth, involves about a hundred thousand separate calculations. Even the computer needs several minutes for the job."