jnb10@ccc.amdahl.com (Joe Boucher) (01/12/91)
I am looking for as much technical info as I can get on Microchannel. I have a 55 SX and would like to build some interface boards. Is the information itself licensed by IBM, or is it freely available as it is with the AT bus? I can't seem to get an answer from IBM reps as to whether or not the info is in the Technical Ref Manual. Does anyone have any suggestions for any books that might have complete specs (enough to design from), or anywhere else that I might try. Thanks in advance. Joe Boucher
feustel@netcom.UUCP (David Feustel) (01/13/91)
Try the Micro Channel Architecture Handbook (Brady Books, ISBN 0-13-583493-7, $29.95). Somewhat propagandistic and full of typos, but contains a fair amount of useful info on Microchannel. The big question for me is how much of the full Microchannel spec is implemented in currently available IBM machines. -- David Feustel, 1930 Curdes Ave, Fort Wayne, IN 46805, (219) 482-9631 EMAIL: netcom.uucp
ccastd2@prism.gatech.EDU (Dale Phurrough) (01/13/91)
jnb10@ccc.amdahl.com (Joe Boucher) writes: >I am looking for as much technical info as I can get on Microchannel. >I have a 55 SX and would like to build some interface boards. Is the >information itself licensed by IBM, or is it freely available as it is >with the AT bus? I can't seem to get an answer from IBM reps as to whether >or not the info is in the Technical Ref Manual. >Does anyone have any suggestions for any books that might have complete >specs (enough to design from), or anywhere else that I might try. >Thanks in advance. >Joe Boucher I thought the whole deal with Microchannel was that the specs were patented by IBM nothing...including wiring info could be gotten without paying IBM a hugh lump. Yousee IBM screwed up by not doing the same thing with ISA. Company after company copied their standard and IBM lost out. Although...I could be wrong! -- Lamborghini Diablo ===----> the latest and fastest.... Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!ccastd2 Internet: ccastd2@prism.gatech.edu
andrew@ramona.Cary.NC.US (Andrew Ernest) (01/13/91)
I've got the "IBM Personal System/2 Hardware Interface Technical Reference" and it includes, among others, the following sections: Micro Channel (tm) Architecture Channel Definition Signal Descriptions Micro Channel Connector Channel Signal Groups Bus Ownership Channel Support Level-Sensitive Interrupt Sharing Micro Channel Critical Timing Parameters DMA Timing ... Programmable Option Select Card Selected Feedback System Board Setup Adapter Setup Adapter POS Implementation POS Implementation Procedure System Configuration Utilities Adapter Description Files Micro Channel Adapter Design Dimensions Power Voltage Regulation General Design Considerations Design Guidelines I've left out some of the headings to save typing...I just wanted to give you a flavor of what's in the book. There are timing diagrams and adapter drawings (with dimensions). I can't comment on the accuracy and completeness of the info because I'm not a hardware hack. -- Andrew Ernest <andrew@ramona.Cary.NC.US>
jgb@prism.gatech.EDU (James G. Baker) (01/14/91)
In article <85TA02Rz04Ep01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jnb10@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Joe Boucher) writes: >I am looking for as much technical info as I can get on Microchannel. The true-blue IBM technical reference has served me well. I have the MCA info and also the model 50,60,70,80 info (POS and some I/O are machine- specific). The SAMS PS/2 Tech guide and Eggebrecht's Interfacing to the PC/AT/PS/2 has also helped to provide different wording from IBM's info. If you just need to make a MCA card, that should do very well. I've seen SAMS schematics, diagrams for the models 30 and 50, but not any 386 ones - and I haven't bought any yet. Good luck. -- BAKER,JAMES G - Lab Technician, School of Electrical Engineering Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!jgb Internet: jgb@prism.gatech.edu
bank@lea.ncsu.edu (Dave The DM) (01/19/91)
In article <85TA02Rz04Ep01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jnb10@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Joe Boucher) writes: >I am looking for as much technical info as I can get on Microchannel. > >I have a 55 SX and would like to build some interface boards. Is the >information itself licensed by IBM, or is it freely available as it is >with the AT bus? I can't seem to get an answer from IBM reps as to whether >or not the info is in the Technical Ref Manual. > >Does anyone have any suggestions for any books that might have complete >specs (enough to design from), or anywhere else that I might try. > >Thanks in advance. >Joe Boucher You'll have to get the specs from IBM, as far as I know. I don't know what the cost involved is, but I do know that part of the bus design involves embedded ROMs with, you guessed it, throughly copyrighted code. As clean as the bus design might be, its a tangle of legal ownership, patents, and copyrights. You're pretty much stuck with IBM as your sole source of info, unless you want to try to contat a company that has made an MCA board and weasel it out of them. I don't see that Big Blue would be all that reluctant to give you the information you need to build an expansion board. It's to their advantage in the end. One of the things that made the old AT bus so popular was the wide variety of expansion cards for it. Dave the DM bank@lea.csc.ncsu.edu
ong@d.cs.okstate.edu (ONG ENG TENG) (01/19/91)
> In article <85TA02Rz04Ep01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jnb10@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Joe Boucher) writes: >>I am looking for as much technical info as I can get on Microchannel. >> >>I have a 55 SX and would like to build some interface boards. Is the >>information itself licensed by IBM, or is it freely available as it is >>with the AT bus? I can't seem to get an answer from IBM reps as to whether >>or not the info is in the Technical Ref Manual. >> >>Does anyone have any suggestions for any books that might have complete >>specs (enough to design from), or anywhere else that I might try. >> >>Thanks in advance. >>Joe Boucher The below is meant to stimulate more discussion on the *technical* facts on the microchannel card, and not to actually provide them. I heard that the number of chips needed to drive the microchannel card takes up more than half the full-length card, leaving little space for the circuit of whatever the card is originally supposed to do, especially since the card itself is so short (as opposed to tall). Also, the card is so hard to design that even a longtime ISA motherboard designer/maker has to buy the design info from another microchannel (serial port) card maker in order to implement their ISA card function onto a microchannel card. All in all, unless you are a near-million-dollar company/person, forget it! Can anyone please change my mind?
kirsch@ux.acs.umn.edu (Dave Kirsch) (01/20/91)
In article <1991Jan19.023553.23505@d.cs.okstate.edu> ong@d.cs.okstate.edu (ONG ENG TENG) writes: > >The below is meant to stimulate more discussion on the *technical* facts >on the microchannel card, and not to actually provide them. >I heard that the number of chips needed to drive the microchannel >card takes up more than half the full-length card, leaving little space for >the circuit of whatever the card is originally supposed to do, >especially since the card itself is so short (as opposed to tall). >Also, the card is so hard to design that even a longtime ISA motherboard >designer/maker has to buy the design info from another microchannel >(serial port) card maker in order to implement their ISA card function >onto a microchannel card. All in all, unless you are a >near-million-dollar company/person, forget it! Can anyone please >change my mind? I'd like to know where you 'heard' this? We've got a couple of boards that are less than 1/2 length boards. We're running both a board for extra serial ports and another for extra parallel ports in our server (an 80 A-31), and the population of chips on these boards is 'sparse' at best. As for designing MCA boards, why would a board designer need to buy the design from another board maker? Sure, they may want to consult another board maker about design, little tricks, etc. However, there is no reason they should have to 'pay' anything to another board maker. The microchannel standard/specs have been 'opened up' by IBM to the extent that they are no longer charging licensing fees for MCA machines. IBM has (at least partially) seen the error of their ways; it is now far easier to develop for the microchannel platform. (I'm sure that has more than a little to do with losing market share.) Dave Kirsch kirsch@ux.acs.umn.edu
jgb@prism.gatech.EDU (James G. Baker) (01/21/91)
In article <1991Jan19.023553.23505@d.cs.okstate.edu> ong@d.cs.okstate.edu (ONG ENG TENG) writes: >I heard that the number of chips needed to drive the microchannel >card takes up more than half the full-length card, leaving little space for >the circuit of whatever the card is originally supposed to do, > >All in all, unless you are a near-million-dollar company/person, forget it! >Can anyone please change my mind? MCA is really not that difficult. I have made several cards for my PS/2 model 70. Unless you have your own surface-mount LSI stuff, don't expect to make an eithernet card on one of these boards, but you can do a lot with normal parts. Start with an MCA card with the address decode on it(Jameco,etc). But even in that case, the address decode only is about 1/7 the area. The POS implementation is not bad either and has great flexibility. I hope that this group will support more technical questions about the MCA specs, rather than only "Can I have 2 hard disks in my m30..." -- BAKER,JAMES G - Undergraduate Lab Instructor, School of Electrical Engineering ____ _ _ Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 | | _ |_) uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!jgb (_|. |_). |_). Internet: jgb@prism.gatech.edu