solworth@uicbert.eecs.uic.edu (10/28/89)
I know everyone has seen this message a hundred times, but ... We are going to be teaching a VLSI class on Sparcstations, or if that is not possible, Sun 3/60C. We want to run Magic, etc. and would prefer to run X-windows. OS is 4.0.?. What do we have to do? Many thanks, Jon Solworth
shorty@jupiter.cs.pittsburgh.edu (Saverio Fazzari) (10/28/89)
Hi,
I am working in testing digital designs done using MAGIC ver 4
on sun 3's
what is the best switch level simulator for Cmos circuits
and why?
I want to determine delay times for them, right now I am using
crystal but a extraction of resistance from magic is not very good
what is the best way to do it , or is there a better tool out there?
please mail any replies directly
Thanks
shorty@ee.pitt.eduvishin@helios.cs.duke.edu (Sanjay Vishin) (10/30/89)
In article <6124@pitt.UUCP>, shorty@jupiter.cs.pittsburgh.edu (Saverio Fazzari) writes: > I want to determine delay times for them, right now I am using > crystal but a extraction of resistance from magic is not very good > what is the best way to do it , or is there a better tool out there? > shorty@ee.pitt.edu I have seen people complain about "Crystal" before. Agreed that it does estimate delays in a pessimistic manner, but it still has the capacity to "differentiate between two delay paths", which is more important for a delay /timing analyzer, than accurate prediction of delays. Once the time consuming process of weeding out the main (say 5 major) delays paths has been done, the rest (accurate delay estimation) can be done by a circuit simulator like spice (which Crystal produces automatically). In the same context, resistance estimation by Magic may not distort the delay results as much as crystal itself would using its rough RC estimation model. Does anybody have any results on this ? What about TV (does anybody use that) ? Sanjay Vishin- vishin@cs.duke.edu vishin@mcnc.org
yahoo@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Kenneth L Moore) (10/31/89)
In article <91600002@uicbert.eecs.uic.edu> solworth@uicbert.eecs.uic.edu writes: > I know everyone has seen this message a hundred times, but ... > We are going to be teaching a VLSI class on Sparcstations, >or if that is not possible, Sun 3/60C. We want to run Magic, etc. >and would prefer to run X-windows. OS is 4.0.?. > What do we have to do? >Many thanks, >Jon Solworth If you don't even know your operating system you are in deep doo doo. Installing Magic is fairly complicated even for someone with an in depth knowledge of the operating system. However, if you are determined to start, mail a request to mosis@mosis.edu and ask for a copy of magic. Then get ready for weeks of work. Because Sunwindows is optimized and X is not, X windows will slow everything down by a factor of 10. We thought that X was not worth the trouble and still use the Sunwindows version. -- yahoo@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Kenneth L Moore) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Ken @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
yahoo@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Kenneth L Moore) (10/31/89)
In article <6124@pitt.UUCP> shorty@jupiter.UUCP (Saverio Fazzari) writes: >Hi, ==> I am working in testing digital designs done using MAGIC ver 4 ==> on sun 3's ==> what is the best switch level simulator for Cmos circuits ==> and why? ==> I want to determine delay times for them, right now I am using ==> crystal but a extraction of resistance from magic is not very good ==> what is the best way to do it , or is there a better tool out there? ==> please mail any replies directly ==> Thanks ==> shorty@ee.pitt.edu Try Cosmos. It will do such things as XOR's. I wrote a master's thesis titled "VLSI Resistance Extraction: A Multi-Algorithmic Approach". The resulting resistance extractor, which works with Magic, is slow. Also, because it needs some work (about 3 weeks to construct make files, etc.), I am not prepared to release it. In most cases, you are probably better off estimating resistance. -- yahoo@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Kenneth L Moore) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Ken @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
yahoo@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Kenneth L Moore) (10/31/89)
In article <15919@duke.cs.duke.edu> vishin@helios.cs.duke.edu (Sanjay Vishin) writes: >In article <6124@pitt.UUCP>, shorty@jupiter.cs.pittsburgh.edu (Saverio Fazzari) writes: ==> In the same context, resistance estimation by Magic... ==> Sanjay Vishin- The resistance extractor in Magic is equivalent to no resistance extractor. In fact it may be worse because you think that you have actually extracted a resistance. Re-read the magic tutorial on resistance extraction and use the results with extreme caution. -- yahoo@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Kenneth L Moore) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Ken @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@