[comp.lsi] Query on the accuracy of circuit simulators

fanfelle@iris.ucdavis.EDU (Rob Fanfelle) (11/14/90)

Hello all,
(sorry for the length)

I am hoping that I could get some feedback on people's
experiences with (digital) circuit simulators.  At the moment I
am using IRSIM v8.6 (included in V6 of Magic) to simulate 
the functionality and general timing characteristics of my single-
chip processor.

IRSIM models each transistor as a resistor in series
with a voltage controlled switch.  No resistance is
used from the extracted layout, but each node does
have a lumped capacitance derived from the layout.

I also have access to NYU's Crystal (enhanced by Richard
Kenner for CMOS), although I do not yet have it up and
running.

Does anyone know how IRSIM stacks up against Crystal as
far as the accuracy of timing  [Assuming a relatively well
behaved layout; fairly standard CMOS with some transmission
gates and a few NMOS techniques employed (ex. pmos pull-ups)]
Does Crystal have advantages/strengths over IRSIM?

I have considered simulating "non-standard CMOS" cells
with SPICE and then using a form of backannotation
for IRSIM (use the netchange command).  Has anyone tried this?
Did you find that the increase in accuracy was worth the trouble? 

Are there other INexpensive simulators that are fast and that
(fairly 10-15%) accurately model the timing of high-speed VLSI 
designs? Any indication as to how they compare to other simulators
or actual tested chips?

Either general or specific information would probably assist me
in making my decision for which simulator to use.  Right now I intend
to use IRSIM for general design characterization and then switch
to SOMETHING else for the accurate timing and fine tuning of the
design.

I apologize if it seems I am asking a lot but I would just like to 
get a feel for what tools are avaiable and how accurately I should 
expect them to perform. (especially IRSIM)

I will gladly post a summary of information that I obtain so 
that others can benifit. (I've already been contacted by a few
interested people)


Thanks for your time!!

Rob

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