rick@pcrat.UUCP (Rick Richardson) (03/13/88)
Here's the to-date summary of Dhrystone 2.0 results. I uuencoded it just to tease you. No, seriously, it needs a 132 column printer to print it out, and I had complaints that lines longer than "N" get truncated on some networks. (Actually, the whole thing needs 160 columns if I include date and submitter fields; I figured the 132 column format would be printable by more people. I can be convinced to post the 160 column format by a preponderance of the net) I can't vouch for the accuracy of any results except the slew of MSC C 5.0 results on the PC/AT, AT&T 6386, and PS/2 Model 50, the VAX 8700 result, and the Amdahl 5890 (all of which I personally ran). The MIPS and Sun 4 results (apparently) came from customers of same. -Rick Richardson, President, Coalition to Define "N" begin 777 summary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end -- Rick Richardson, President, PC Research, Inc. (201) 542-3734 (voice, nights) OR (201) 834-1378 (voice, days) uunet!pcrat!rick (UUCP) rick%pcrat.uucp@uunet.uu.net (INTERNET)
barnett@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com (Bruce G. Barnett) (03/16/88)
In article <503@pcrat.UUCP> rick@pcrat.UUCP (Rick Richardson) writes: |(Actually, the whole thing needs 160 columns if I include |date and submitter fields; I figured the 132 column format |would be printable by more people. I can be convinced to |post the 160 column format by a preponderance of the net) Maybe you should post the submitter. Some of the entries don't make sense. There is one case when a Sun 3/50 is faster than a Sun 3/280. There are also entries for Sun models that don't exist. I am also confused by the 5 entries for the Sun 3/50 going from 2344 to 3271. None of those entries mention whether the 68881 chip was used or not. Not to knock what Rick is doing, if there is that much variance without explanation, how useful is this data? Can anything be done to remove this variance? -- Bruce G. Barnett <barnett@ge-crd.ARPA> <barnett@steinmetz.UUCP> uunet!steinmetz!barnett
rick@pcrat.UUCP (Rick Richardson) (03/16/88)
In article <4074@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com> barnett@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com (Bruce G. Barnett) writes: > >Maybe you should post the submitter. Some of the entries >don't make sense. There is one case when a Sun 3/50 is faster than a >Sun 3/280. There are also entries for Sun models that don't exist. If/when I get several results for a particular machine, I'll toss out those entries which seem in error. There's no way I can possibly know beforehand. Certainly, nobody is paying me to verify these results! We have to rely upon a preponderance of the evidence. > >I am also confused by the 5 entries for the Sun 3/50 going from >2344 to 3271. None of those entries mention whether the 68881 chip was >used or not. Not knowing what a 68881 chip does (last time I touched a Sun, it was a Sun/2, sigh), I can only suggest that if it has any bearing on the results that submitters please include this information. > >Not to knock what Rick is doing, if there is that much variance >without explanation, how useful is this data? > >Can anything be done to remove this variance? Well, each manufacturer could offer to pay my expenses to verify their performance (or maybe 'the other guys' performance) (especially any manufacturers in Hawaii). :-) :-). -- Rick Richardson, President, PC Research, Inc. (201) 542-3734 (voice, nights) OR (201) 834-1378 (voice, days) uunet!pcrat!rick (UUCP) rick%pcrat.uucp@uunet.uu.net (INTERNET)
dfk@duke.cs.duke.edu (David Kotz) (03/16/88)
In article <4074@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com>, barnett@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com (Bruce G. Barnett) writes: > I am also confused by the 5 entries for the Sun 3/50 going from > 2344 to 3271. None of those entries mention whether the 68881 chip was > used or not. The 68881 is a floating-point support chip and the test does no floating point operations. It would therefore seem like it makes no difference in the test. David Kotz -- Department of Computer Science, Duke University, Durham, NC 27706 ARPA: dfk@cs.duke.edu CSNET: dfk@duke UUCP: {ihnp4!decvax}!duke!dfk
barnett@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com (Bruce G. Barnett) (03/16/88)
In article <506@pcrat.UUCP> rick@pcrat.UUCP (Rick Richardson) writes: |In article <4074@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com> I wrote: |>I am also confused by the 5 entries for the Sun 3/50 going from |>2344 to 3271. None of those entries mention whether the 68881 chip was |>used or not. | |Not knowing what a 68881 chip does (last time I touched a Sun, it |was a Sun/2, sigh), I can only suggest that if it has any bearing |on the results that submitters please include this information. The 68881 chip is an optional floating point chip for the low end Sun 3/50. Silly me. This has little impact on Dhrystones, correct? I still don't understand how one Sun 3/50 can be 40% faster than another. Anyone have any ideas on how to prevent 'strange' numbers without overloading Rick? What about another field indicating the number of people who duplicated the results. I would trust a value duplicated by 10 people more than the results of one person. But then you need averages, etc. ACK! Oh - You're welcome Rick. :-) :-) -- Bruce G. Barnett <barnett@ge-crd.ARPA> <barnett@steinmetz.UUCP> uunet!steinmetz!barnett
alverson@decwrl.dec.com (Robert Alverson) (03/17/88)
In the postings so far, there have been very few pascal dhrystone numbers given. How about it folks? When I try the pascal version here, one of the answers doesn't match. Is this a problem with the code? Anyway, it seems that Pascal could potentially run the benchmark must faster since the strings in it are fixed length. The string assignment need only copy 30 bytes of data from one spot to another. The compiler may even be able to guarantee word alignment. Similarly, the string compare may be optimized knowing the length to compare is fixed and that the two strings are word-aligned. Is this fair? Or is it just a builtin inefficiency of C strings? Bob
butcher@G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (Lawrence Butcher) (03/17/88)
I submitted two of the 3/50 numbers, the (reg)2859 and (reg)3452. You may reproduce them. The Sun 3/50 is a 68020 running at 15 MHz. You would guess that it is (15/16.666) times as fast as a 3/160, which has a 16.66 MHz clock. However the display steals memory cycles from the processor. Under Sun Unix 3.5 (and maybe older versions) the display blanks after the machine has been idle for a while. To get my fast number I telnetted to an idle Sun from another machine and did the measurement. I then did "echo toads >/dev/console" and the display unblanked. Measuring again I got the slower number. My numbers are probably +-10%. Rick will have to get several independent measurements to zero in on the correct number. The Sun 3/50 should have two ratings, and would exhibit the faster performance if it were used as a server. Surprised me too: Lawrence Butcher
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (03/25/88)
in article <4076@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com>, barnett@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com (Bruce G. Barnett) says: > |Not knowing what a 68881 chip does (last time I touched a Sun, it > |was a Sun/2, sigh), I can only suggest that if it has any bearing > |on the results that submitters please include this information. > The 68881 chip is an optional floating point chip for the low end Sun 3/50. > Silly me. This has little impact on Dhrystones, correct? > I still don't understand how one Sun 3/50 can be 40% faster than another. Other than adding to context switch time a tad, the 68881 shouldn't be involved at all. If the same exact machine is turning in a 40% difference, I'd suspect that some kind of unusal load kicks in every now and then, or maybe there's a problem with the real-time response of the timer function call. If these are different machines, I'd suspect that some of them are running a few things in the background that are eating into your Dhrystone time. The best way to run it would be with all but the normal, "everyone-needs-these", processes shut down. Or perhaps the sample size is too small for the machines we're testing these days. With [a version of] the old Dhrystone on one of the machines I've been working on, I kept getting somewhere between 15 and 16 seconds for the standard number of passes. Boosting the sample size made the results more repeatable. I haven't tried the new code yet, perhaps this has already been done? > Bruce G. Barnett <barnett@ge-crd.ARPA> <barnett@steinmetz.UUCP> > uunet!steinmetz!barnett -- Dave Haynie "The B2000 Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {ihnp4|uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy "I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"
barnett@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com (Bruce G. Barnett) (03/25/88)
In article <3505@cbmvax.UUCP> daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: |in article <4076@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com>, I wrote: |> I still don't understand how one Sun 3/50 can be 40% faster than another. | | [guesses for the difference] I got a reply by the person who submitted the results. The fastest speed was done by rlogin-ing to an idle sun (I assume no suntools or lockscreen) and running the test. As I recall, the Sun 3/50 does not have its own frame buffer, so the screen access must slow down all memory access? All of the other Suns have a dedicated frame buffer. Perhaps this explains it? -- Bruce G. Barnett <barnett@ge-crd.ARPA> <barnett@steinmetz.UUCP> uunet!steinmetz!barnett
bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) (03/27/88)
Wouldn't it be reasonable that, given a series of trials (perhaps by different people) that one reports only the best result (assuming there's no reason to believe it was due to a total error.) I agree that this isn't how one does things in the natural sciences, but that isn't what we're dealing with here at all. It seems that there are a zillion reasons a benchmark might be slowed down (sudden burst of net traffic etc) but I can't think of any good reasons that a benchmark, properly compiled and run, would accidently run fast. Perhaps getting lucky with a cache, but I don't think that's a concern or is meant to be eliminated by the dhrystone methodology. I suppose if the claim were that there was a wide variance in chip quality (?) etc, I just don't think that's the case here. Didn't some of the 370 series repeat and compare calculations if the room was too warm? Now there's a wierd factor in a benchmark. -Barry Shein, Boston University
mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) (03/28/88)
In article <20970@bu-cs.BU.EDU> bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) writes: >Wouldn't it be reasonable that, given a series of trials (perhaps by >different people) that one reports only the best result (assuming >there's no reason to believe it was due to a total error.) >I agree that this isn't how one does things in the natural sciences, >but that isn't what we're dealing with here at all. It seems that >there are a zillion reasons a benchmark might be slowed down (sudden >burst of net traffic etc) but I can't think of any good reasons that a >benchmark, properly compiled and run, would accidently run fast. >Perhaps getting lucky with a cache, but I don't think that's a concern >or is meant to be eliminated by the dhrystone methodology.... Well, actually, cache luckiness happens, especially on benchmarks whose size "roughly" approximates that of the cache(s). [I say "roughly" because it's much more complicated than that.] In particular, suppose you have machines that have physically-tagged, direct-mapped caches, which is what many microprocessors with TLBs do, at least in building their external caches. Of the RISC machines: MIPS RX000: yes AMD 29000: likely design, if caches used SPARC: some might; Sun-4/2xx uses virtual map MC88000: no, uses set-associative cache chips Of the CISCs: 80386: likely 68020: sometimes 68030: likely VAX 8700: yes If physical->virtual mappings are made randomly by the OS, there can be a wide variance in the performance of some benchmarks, especially if a small joint (I+D) cache is used (split I & D caches act somewhat more like 2-way set-associative ones). In particular, you could get performance versus frequency distributions like: rel perf (bigger=faster) frequency 1.4 5% 1.2 30 1.0 50 0.8 10% 0.7 5% The best case was in finding an unusuallly good cache arrangement, and the worst an unusually bad one. This can be fixed (statistically) by careful allocation of mappings, the kernel tries to map any single program's virtual pages onto the physical cache in a consistent way. There are two results from doing this: a) The variance lessens greatly. b) On some programs, the average performance actually improves. This used to drive us nuts till we fixed it. -- -john mashey DISCLAIMER: <generic disclaimer, I speak for me only, etc> UUCP: {ames,decwrl,prls,pyramid}!mips!mash OR mash@mips.com DDD: 408-991-0253 or 408-720-1700, x253 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems, 930 E. Arques, Sunnyvale, CA 94086