[comp.arch] foreign language requirements f

garyb@hcx1.SSD.HARRIS.COM (04/05/89)

>> >>>I presume, Henry, that you know how f^&*#%$ hard Japanese is to learn...
>> >>
> 
> Note that little children have learned Japanese, Latin, and other foreign
> to us languages. Not exceptional kids, either, but those present-day kids that
> live in Japan, and the historical kids that lived in the Roman Empire.
> It can be done.

I remember reading somewhere about some research that suggests the
human mind's ability to learn to speak new languages is much reduced
after about the age of 12, or 15, or some other very young age.  In
particular, the ability to speak it well, especially without an accent
is much reduced.  It was suggested that at some point, the cerebral
circuits that control speech have become "programmed" for the native
tounge(s) of the child, and that future attempts to learn to speak new
languages must reporgram these same "circuits".  It was also suggested
that perhaps the cause of this phenomena is that after this
programming takes place, a bunch of neurons that used to be reserved
for speech are freed up and put into service for some other task.

I don't remember if the these researchers were interested in language
comprehension too, but it seems like this same theory could just as
easily apply to comprehension.  Indeed, it seems reasonable to me,
that any cognitive skill that has become as involuntary as speech or
speech understanding, will be more difficult to adapt to a new
environment than to have learned that skill from the start in this
same environment.

Well, just a thought (and one that probably doesn't belong in this
news group)

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rodman@mfci.UUCP (Paul Rodman) (04/06/89)

In article <93900021@hcx1> garyb@hcx1.SSD.HARRIS.COM writes:
>
>>> >>>I presume, Henry, that you know how f^&*#%$ hard Japanese is to learn...
>>> >>
>> 
>> Note that little children have learned Japanese, Latin, and other foreign
>> to us languages. Not exceptional kids, either, but those present-day kids that
>> live in Japan, and the historical kids that lived in the Roman Empire.
>> It can be done.
>
>I remember reading somewhere about some research that suggests the
>human mind's ability to learn to speak new languages is much reduced
>after about the age of 12, or 15, or some other very young age.  In
>particular, the ability to speak it well, especially without an accent
>is much reduced.  

I too have heard this. For example, I think for a Japanese raised the 
distinguish-ability of "L" has not been wired in very well. If you can't 
tell what it sounds like, that makes it hard to speak later

The NOVA I saw used infants in various stages of development to show this 
in a really ingenious experiment.

Various languages have sounds that are differentated so slightly that
non-native speakers can run across words that sound identical, but
are not. To a native the same words are quite different sounding.

-----


    Paul K. Rodman 
    rodman@mfci.uucp
    __... ...__    _.. .   _._ ._ .____ __.. ._
    

pgp@homxb.ATT.COM (P.PALMER) (04/10/89)

RE: learning of language

it's true, this discussion doesn't belong here--but i couldn't resist
protesting what i feel is a prejudicial and poorly demonstrated theory.
it is often used as an excuse for not learning--by adults.

The theory that people inherently lose facility in learning languages
after a certain age is just that...a theory.  There are numerous
examples to disprove it.  Also, it's just as likely that people
become lazy and resistant with age, rather than that they actually
are incapable of learning.  Speech therapists and linguists are able
to help people learn to distinguish (and produce) sounds which at first
they were unable to distinguish/produce.  

Personally--having studied linguistics and learned more than one language
as an adult (and i think fairly well)--i've never believed that theory
about the restriction.  i also get annoyed at all the talk about "what
a miracle infant linguistic acquisition is."  children and infants don't
have anything else to do in life but acquire language, eat and sleep and
play...also, people tend to sit around with kids repeating "nose, ear, red
orange yellow..." etc.  even children among themselves keep their use of
language on a simple level...give those same conditions to adults--well,
most would acquire language quickly also, in my opinion.