arthur@warwick.UUCP (John Vaudin) (06/22/89)
I read some rumours in a UK magazine that Intel have stopped production of their i82786 graphics co-processor. This seems odd to me as it is quite a new design. For those not familiar with the device, it supports all the usual scan generation and drawing lines etc, but more interestingly it suports hardware overlapping windows and does raterops. According to the article I read Intel were expecting the chip to form the heart of the VGA standard, and when IBM rejected it Intel decided to cease production. This has, according to the article, produced much ill feeling amongst small manufacturers here in the UK. Is the rumour true? If so doesn't this seem a rather less than ethical thing for Intel to do? It was claimed that the small manufacturers in question vowed never to use Intel parts again, some even said they would never use US parts again ( seems a bit drastic to me). But it must be very difficult for small companies if even the large silicon companies can't be trusted to continue to supply current parts. I realise that some parts must eventually die out, but as I have said this is a newish design. If this rumour is true then I am interested what implications this has to the current RISC market. If manufacturers are going to stop production of chips because sales are not as high as hoped for then what happens if the 29000/88000/i860/MIPS/SPARC/.... etc. doesn't sell, will the manufacturers keep production going?? There are so many RISCs on the market at present that they can't all be successful, so does this mean that unless you back the winning horse you might be left with no supply at all ???? John Vaudin Computer Science, Warwick University, UK. e-mail arthur@uk.ac.warwick.cs
slackey@bbn.com (Stan Lackey) (06/23/89)
In article <1987@ubu.warwick.UUCP> arthur@flame.warwick.ac.uk (John Vaudin) writes: >I read some rumours in a UK magazine that Intel have stopped production >of their i82786 graphics co-processor. This seems odd to me ... >If this rumour is true then I am interested what implications this has to the >current RISC market. If manufacturers are going to stop production of >chips because sales are not as high as hoped for then what ... In cases where you are worried about this, like your company depends on some part, there is a way to protect yourself. Lore has it that it is possible to get production rights if the supplier decides to stop making it. If you can, get the agreements signed before committing to the part. Now I imagine some suppliers might not want to sign such an agreement, like they might not want to give away all their process information if it is a custom process. Then it's your decision if you want to take a risk on the part, or perhaps use one from another vendor that may not be as good. Other approaches include buying up-front the entire volume you think you will ever need. (If the supplier won't sell them to you, it should give you a real strong hint as to what is going on.) This, naturally, may be impractical for a small company. If you do have production rights, and the process isn't too obtuse, you should be able to get the chip made. It will probably end up costing more, since the volumes aren't there. -Stan my opinions alone etc.
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (06/23/89)
In article <1987@ubu.warwick.UUCP>, arthur@warwick.UUCP (John Vaudin) writes: > I read some rumours in a UK magazine that Intel have stopped production > of their i82786 graphics co-processor. This seems odd to me as it is quite > a new design. Not to mention that they're using it in their i520 Multibus-2 systems for the console processor... -- Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation. Business: uunet.uu.net!ficc!peter, peter@ficc.uu.net, +1 713 274 5180. Personal: ...!texbell!sugar!peter, peter@sugar.hackercorp.com.
mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) (06/25/89)
In article <1987@ubu.warwick.UUCP> arthur@flame.warwick.ac.uk (John Vaudin) writes: >If this rumour is true then I am interested what implications this has to the >current RISC market. If manufacturers are going to stop production of >chips because sales are not as high as hoped for then what >happens if the 29000/88000/i860/MIPS/SPARC/.... etc. doesn't sell, will >the manufacturers keep production going?? There are so many RISCs on the >market at present that they can't all be successful, so >does this mean that unless you back the winning horse you might be left >with no supply at all ???? This is actually a different situation, because of the software implications, i.e., devices intended to be reprogrammable devices visible to users: a) Not only need to be built for a (reasonably) long time, but b) Had better have followon products that are compatible Hence, choice of a CPU is an even higher-stakes game than choice of a peripheral chip. When a company picks an architecture, it's probably making a 5-10-year committment, and so they think hard about it. These things come in cycles: in the early 80's, there was a fight amongst the various CISC chips, and it took a few years for things to settle out; as you note, the current fight amongst RISCs is similar. Anybody has a choice, whose extrema are: a) Make a very early choice, hoping to get ahead of the competition, taking the risks that the parts may not be the long-term winners, or even, may be withdrawn from the market, which happens, even sometimes from large companies. Not every part described in the trade press is actually built. b) Make a very late choice, where the winners are obvious, but there is no technology advantage over the competition. I've used the analogy before, but it bears repeating: doing a), that is, picking your CPU early in the game, is like playing Russian Roulette where you pick your CPU, pull the trigger, and then wait 1-2 years to see if you've blown your brains out. -- -john mashey DISCLAIMER: <generic disclaimer, I speak for me only, etc> UUCP: {ames,decwrl,prls,pyramid}!mips!mash OR mash@mips.com DDD: 408-991-0253 or 408-720-1700, x253 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems, 930 E. Arques, Sunnyvale, CA 94086
mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) (06/26/89)
mash@mips.com says: > Anybody has a choice, whose extrema are: > a) Make a very early choice, hoping to get ahead of the competition, > taking the risks that the parts may not be the long-term > winners, or even, may be withdrawn from the market, > which happens, even sometimes from large companies. > Not every part described in the trade press is actually built. > b) Make a very late choice, where the winners are obvious, > but there is no technology advantage over the competition. There's also alternative c): c) Choose a processor which doesn't quite make it, but isn't a total loser. The marketing department of your CPU vendor then re-targets it to the laser-printer market. Let's see, which chips have been touted as the "ideal" laser printer controller: 32000, 29000, 2167/9, ...
acockcroft@pitstop.West.Sun.COM (Adrian Cockcroft) (06/27/89)
In article <41891@bbn.COM>, slackey@bbn.com (Stan Lackey) writes: > In article <1987@ubu.warwick.UUCP> arthur@flame.warwick.ac.uk (John Vaudin) writes: > > >If this rumour is true then I am interested what implications this has to the > >current RISC market. If manufacturers are going to stop production of > >chips because sales are not as high as hoped for then what ... > > In cases where you are worried about this, like your company depends > on some part, there is a way to protect yourself. Lore has it that it > is possible to get production rights if the supplier decides to stop > making it. If you can, get the agreements signed before committing to > the part. If you buy a processor that is widely second sourced then you reduce your risk. In the case of SPARC it is also possible to licence the right to design and manufacture your own SPARC designs for your own use. This is what Solbourne and Prisma (and others) have done. It is a different licence from that held by LSI, Cypress, Fujitsu, TI and BIT since they have the right to sell chips on the open market. Note that the current Solbourne design uses Fujitsu chips but Matsushita/Solbourne are working on their own design.