edlee@chinet.chi.il.us (Edward Lee) (06/23/89)
I saved the following message from Fidonet or Internet last year. Is there any truth to the second paragraph about the Motorola DSP56001 being capable of acting as a V.32 modem at the price Eric Larson mentions? >From: Eric Larson >To: All Msg #18, 25-Oct-88 09:52am >Subject: High Speed MUCH Cheaper? [....] >BUT, a new player has emerged - the Motorola DSP56001 - it's a digital signal >processor, basically a very fast A/D + D/A converter that has appeared in some >speciallized Mac II sound boards, and the new NeXT machine. The interesting >thing about this chip is that it's powerful enough to be programmed to act as >a V.32 modem (Motorola claims they have completed the low level programming >for this application), and the price is $56. In single quantities yet. This >thing has been shipping since March 1987 -.... -Ed L
les@unicads.UUCP (Les Milash) (06/28/89)
In article <8765@chinet.chi.il.us> edlee@chinet.chi.il.us (Edward Lee) writes: >>[is this BEGINRUMOR >>BUT, a new player has emerged - the Motorola DSP56001 - it's a digital signal >>processor, basically a very fast A/D + D/A converter that has appeared in some ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that's not a good description of a DSP. DSP's do what you want done after you get it from A to D, and before you turn it back to A. they tend to be "primitive" processors; technically RISC (hardwired decode logic, 1 cycle ops) but with various uglyisms in 'em; they're hard to hand-code for. often no wait states; you get to shop for small fast SRAM chips. they tend to have 1-cycle 16x16=32 multipliers with >32 bit accumulators on their back ends. they tend to have index registers with post-increment. they are optimized for signed integer convolution. i say "primitive" but we mean balls-to-the-walls cycle time AND a bunch of memory AND one-cycle-mpy AND ... i think this guy's claim to fame is 24 bit wide datapaths with a 56 bit accumulator. i believe that the 56001 is a followon to the 56000 (probably more ram or fewer nS or something). i'm kind of surprised that the 56001 was used in the nExt. it's way wide enough (even 16 bit is plenty wide enough), but the AT&T DSP-25C has single prec floating point. some (mostly old cheaper worse) DSPs did have analog i/o, but i bet this one doesn't. i'm checking; i'll let you know either way. >>for this application), and the price is $56. In single qtys yet. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that would be astonishing for such a powerful chip. you can bet i'm checking that one too. >>ENDRUMOR true?] these are particularly interesting to me, so i'm checking it out. if these were true, even just the $56/qty 1 part, that'd change the face of the dig synth industry overnight; a startup could compete with yamaha's custom VLSI and win in terms of !/$. or maybe i've just been in the dark; it seems distressingly common. i'll either refute this claim or start looking for venture capital within 48 hours, i promise :-) the original poster was talking about some kind of modem. I can well imagine that this chip is fast enough for that, i bet the A/D&D/A will be external, there'll be 36 sq. inches of board, and it'll take some macho software development; it ain't gonna cost $56. i did see a TI TMS320 being a 1200 bps modem (40 MHz = 10 "MIPS", 16 bit, integer) once, probably some less exhalted type of modem. btw these chips are not synthesizers, they are about enough synth to keep one finger happy. i calculate that a yamaha DX-7 is about a dozen of 'em. Led Z. Milash McCabe's Law: just cause it's wrapped in lycra, doesn't mean it's good.
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (06/28/89)
In article <8765@chinet.chi.il.us> edlee@chinet.chi.il.us (Edward Lee) writes: > > I saved the following message from Fidonet or Internet last year. Is there > any truth to the second paragraph about the Motorola DSP56001 being capable > of acting as a V.32 modem at the price Eric Larson mentions? Perhaps,, however a DSP chip is not a modem, just a piece that handles the signal processing side. You also need d/a-a/d stuff and a "network interface" to cope with phone line nasties. Casework, power supplies, and *yes* RAM, fast RAM to make the dsp work. You may also need/want a normal micro-processor of some sort to handle bits and hayes type command sequences, which may need it's own ram/rom. Some EEPROM/EAROM has become standard for storeing setup... and so on. Telebit does it's "analog" processing largely with a TI DSP, however the cheapest implemementation, the T1000 lists for well over $500... The current Rockwell V.32 modem chipset seems to have 5 custom chips, presumably to process a normal synchronous data stream - turning it into a hayes compatible Async modem would seem to require a microprocessor plus some unknown amount of Analog preprocessing/line interface, etc... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
les@unicads.UUCP (Les Milash) (06/29/89)
In article <8765@chinet.chi.il.us> edlee@chinet.chi.il.us (Edward Lee) writes: >> I saved the following message from Fidonet or Internet last year. Is there >> any truth to the second paragraph about the Motorola DSP56001 being capable >> of acting as a V.32 modem at the price [$56/qty 1] Eric Larson mentions? I checked the book last night & talked to a Moto marketing guy this am.. 1 the 5600x does NOT have a/d on-chip. 2 the $56/qty 1 price is for people who buy direct from Moto ("who typically buy $100K to $1M per year") 3 the main difference between the 56000 and 56001 is that the latter has the program memory as RAM, where the 56000 has it being masked-prog ROM. 4 (looked fairly nice) I have the book less than 0.5 metres away, so if anybody has any other questions i'll be glad to look it up (email tho, no post). Les Milash
les@unicads.UUCP (Les Milash) (06/29/89)
In article <519@unicads.UUCP> les@unicads.UUCP I wrote a bunch opf stuff
about 56001's, but i forgot to mention that the "$56/qty1" price was for
a chip in a "slam pack" which he said was a die bonded to a ceramic substrate
with traces fanning out toward the edge. i don't know what other packages
options exist.
WARNING stupid humor follows WARNING
the water-cooled version of this pkg is called a "slam dunk".
the marketing guy also said that the single-piece price for the mask-
programmed part was somewhat higher.mhorne@ka7axd.WV.TEK.COM (Michael T. Horne) (06/30/89)
> I saved the following message from Fidonet or Internet last year. Is there > any truth to the second paragraph about the Motorola DSP56001 being capable > of acting as a V.32 modem at the price [$56/qty 1] Eric Larson mentions? I've looked at the 56K very closely, and I find that implementing a V.32 modem on the chip would be fairly easy. Of course, you'll need an ADC/DAC pair and the other analog front end hardware to make a product out of it. The part really has the compute power to do some very impressive things. > but i forgot to mention that the "$56/qty1" price was for a chip in a > "slam pack"... i don't know what other packages options exist. The current SLAM pack has a questionable future since it has several problems, one of which is that once the chip is in the socket, it's in the socket for *good* (unless you want to destroy the socket). I'm told they are currently working on an improved version of the package. I've also heard various rumors that the part will eventually drop to the $15/per range, though this remains to be seen. The part is also available in a PGA package, which is what I've been using. It's nearly twice as much, but it's here today and reliable. Mike
diaz@oakhill.UUCP (Rafael Diaz) (06/30/89)
There is a an electronic bulletin board, "Dr. BuB", providing the latest product information and documentation (including information on DSP56000/1 and new and improved products). All questions concerning Motorola DSP products posted on "Dr. BuB" are answered promptly. "Dr. BuB" provides FREE source code for a large variety of topics that can be used to develop applications with Motorola DSP products. The software library includes approximately 100 files. including FFTs, FIR filters, IIR filters, latice filters, matrix algebra routines, companding routines, floating-point routines, a software debug monitor, and others. Access to "Dr. BuB" is through the following phone numbers: (212A-300/1200 Baud) (512) 891 DSP1 (V.22--1200 Baud) (512) 891 DSP2 (V.22bis-2400 Baud) (512) 891 DSP3 (Format: 7 data bits, even parity, 1 stop bit User ID=guest