amthor@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Geoffrey Amthor) (12/17/89)
Hi. As many of you know, former Apple co-founder Steve Jobs has founded
a new company that has produced an advanced personal computer/workstation
known as the NeXT computer. This computer has been initially targeted at
the university community, with more recent expansion into the mainstream
business market. I won't belabor you with the details, but the NeXT
computer is viewed as important because of its pioneering application
of new technology, an easy interface builder for programmers, and an
advanced bundling of both special hardware and software, making the
"lowest comon denominator" (to which most developers write applications)
rather high. The machine is somewhat controversial, as some are
irritated that yet another standard has reached the marketplace, while
some others believe the NeXT promises more than it delivers. On the
other hand, there is a growing group of NeXT fans who see it as THE
platform for the future.
Fans and flamers alike share one uncertainty, however: Will the NeXT
succeed in the marketplace?
I'm not in a position to answer that question, but I CAN tabulate what
USENET readers think of the NeXT, and summarize that information for
the net.
As a graduate student interested in buying a NeXT, I realize that
part of what holds me up is my ignorance of what *other* people think of
it. My reasoning is this: if most other people aren't even close to
buying, the NeXT will fail; if others are held back by mere (fixable)
technicalities, the NeXT will likely succeed.
Even if you haven't heard of the NeXT, you can help me by at least saying
that. Like any survey, this one will benefit from a high percentage of
returns--please vote! Of course, since returns are voluntary and readers
are preselected by their subscription to USENET, results will be
unscientific. But I am certain they will help me, and I WILL SUMMARIZE
TO THE NET so that everyone else's curiosity can be satisfied.
There are only 10 questions. When multiple choice options are offered,
please select as many as apply--but IN ORDER OF PRIORITY. Feel free to
add whatever comments you wish, but keep in mind that multiple choice
selections are easier to summarize. Also, unless you indicate otherwise,
summaries to the net will be ANONYMOUS, so if you secretly love or hate
the NeXT, you needn't worry about the secret getting out.
PLEASE REPLY BY E-MAIL. Postings will quickly dwarf the net, I may miss
your posting, and I will summarize to the net anyway.
Be assured that I have no affiliation whatsoever with NeXT or Businessland.
Though I am a graduate student at the University of Iowa, this survey
does not represent the interest of UI.
SURVEY:
1. What is your occupation?
2. What computer(s) do you presently own or use regularly? What other
computer(s) do you have actual experience with?
3. What contact have you had with the NeXT computer?
A. Never heard of it
B. Heard it talked about
C. Have seen print ads (name publication)
D. Have read articles about it (name publication)
E. Have seen one in use or in demonstration (where?)
F. Have tried it myself in demo (where?)
G. Have used, or borrowed access to it, for some time
H. Currently own it or have it provided for my own use
I. Other (please specify)
4. How interested are you in purchasing a present or future version of the
NeXT, or having your department acquire one for your use? (Specify
purchase or department acquisition)
A. Not even remotely interested, ever
B. Haven't really though about it
C. Wouldn't rule it out somday
D. Would be interested *if* certain conditions were satisfied
E. Would be *very* interested if certain conditions were satisfied
F. Am literally ready to buy once certain conditions are met
G. Am ready to buy right now
H. Already own or have sufficient access to a NeXT
I. Other (please specify)
5. If you named conditions in (2), which of the following apply? (Please
name only those conditions that are *conditions*, not wish lists.)
A. If I can find the money
B. If the NeXT comes down in price (How much? Off of university or
Businessland prices?)
C. If I can get a hands-on look/feel (demo? rent? 30-day guarantee?)
D. If color arrives
E. If the CPU is upgraded to a 68040 and/or graphics are sped up
F. If the floptical drive is made faster
G. If the floptical drive is doubled in capacity to 512 MB
H. If laser printing can be handled more seamlessly
I. If the NeXT can be better integrated with existing equipment
(name existing equipment)
J. If a 3-1/2" floppy disk drive is bundled
K. If a supplemental operating system runs in emulation or via
co-processor, or if another UNIX variant runs (name the OS or
variant)
L. If a certain software category is filled by a high-quality
application (name category)
M. If a certain software package or language (such as C++) is ported
to the NeXT (name item)
N. If NeXT applications in general reach a critical mass
O. If the NeXTStep interface is improved (name improvement sought)
P. If enough NeXTs are sold to make it a "safe" platform
Q. If a laptop NeXT arrives
R. If a multi-user NeXT arrives (1 cube, several full function inputs
that could either be dedicated Megapixel displays or NeXTStep
interfaces in non-NeXT boxes. Indicate Megapixel or non-NeXT; if
non-NeXT, specify the machine.)
S. If IBM, which has licensed the NeXTStep interface, markets it
T. If bugs are eliminated in the operating system
U. If hardware reliability improves/is proven
V. If distribution is widened to include my university (name university)
W. If distribution is widened to more commercial vendors (suggest one)
X. If my company/university/department endorses it (specify)
Y. If customer support is improved (name support sought)
Z. If.... (please specify)
6. Which of the above possibilities are not absolute conditions for you,
but would carry significant favorable weight in your decision?
7. If you aren't seriously considering acquiring a NeXT in any incarnation,
why not?
A. Very happy with my own system (please specify)
B. Don't have enough (or any) information about NeXT
C. Already plan to buy another system (which system?)
D. Price of NeXT is prohibitively high
E. Don't think the NeXT will ever catch on
F. Don't like the user/programmer interface (why not?)
G. Require a different primary operating system or UNIX variant
(specify OS or variant)
H. Hardware is inadequate for needs (what is missing?)
I. Have heard too many negative things about NeXT (such as?)
J. Think the NeXT is "too much computer" for needs
K. Buying a NeXT is politically impossible (why?)
L. Other (please specify)
8. Does the NeXT interest you enough that you want to find out more about it?
9. As a computer user, what percent of your interest or time is devoted to
end-user computing? To programming? To system administration? To
other activities (specify)? How might these percentages change if you
acquired a NeXT?
10. What do you think about how the NeXT has been marketed? Any suggestions
for improvement?eric@snark.uu.net (Eric S. Raymond) (12/19/89)
In <317@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> Geoffrey Amthor wrote: > Fans and flamers alike share one uncertainty, however: Will the NeXT > succeed in the marketplace? I answered this in email, but I cannot resist the urge to post one question to any NeXT fans reading news. To wit: Why should I buy Steve Jobs's Mac-on-steroids closed-architecture box when I can get cheaper, faster commodity iron with better standards conformance based on the 386? -- Eric S. Raymond = eric@snark.uu.net (mad mastermind of TMN-Netnews)
chari@nueces.cactus.org (Chris Whatley) (12/19/89)
eric@snark.uu.net (Eric S. Raymond) writes: >In <317@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> Geoffrey Amthor wrote: >> Fans and flamers alike share one uncertainty, however: Will the NeXT >> succeed in the marketplace? >Why should I buy Steve Jobs's Mac-on-steroids closed-architecture box when >I can get cheaper, faster commodity iron with better standards conformance >based on the 386? Because it is cool, of course. :-) What standards are you referring to anyway? Chris -- Chris Whatley Work: chari@pelican.ma.utexas.edu (NeXT Mail) (512/471-7711 ext 123) Play: chari@nueces.cactus.org (NeXT Mail) (512/499-0475) Also: chari@emx.utexas.edu
darryl@ism780c.isc.com (Darryl Richman) (12/19/89)
In article <1TqpCt#6PkSJw=eric@snark.uu.net> eric@snark.uu.net (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
"Why should I buy Steve Jobs's Mac-on-steroids closed-architecture box when
"I can get cheaper, faster commodity iron with better standards conformance
"based on the 386?
For the same reason that people continue to buy light powered Macs for the
same prices as 386s on steroids: it's different, and perhaps better, for
their needs. Besides, the NeXT is not a closed architecture box--it takes
NuBus cards (of admittedly funny size and speed), but it is not closed in
the sense of the Macs up to the Mac+. It also runs Mach, which means it
ought to do multiprocessing easily and well (remains to be seen).
--Darryl Richman
P.S. I am hardly a NeXT fan, but I can see why someone might choose to
pay more for an integrated GUI with a policy than Unix with X.
--
Copyright (c) 1989 Darryl Richman The views expressed are the author's alone
darryl@ism780c.isc.com INTERACTIVE Systems Corp.-A Kodak Company
"For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong."
-- H. L. Menckenjps@wucs1.wustl.edu (James Sterbenz) (12/20/89)
In article <1TqpCt#6PkSJw=eric@snark.uu.net> eric@snark.uu.net (Eric S. Raymond) writes: >In <317@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> Geoffrey Amthor wrote: >I answered this in email, but I cannot resist the urge to post one question >to any NeXT fans reading news. To wit: So did I, but ... >Why should I buy Steve Jobs's Mac-on-steroids closed-architecture box when >I can get cheaper, faster commodity iron with better standards conformance >based on the 386? ... with another significant jump via the 486 (and 860) available very soon. Add all of the workstations produced by established companies based on the 88000, R6000..., NeXT has to seriously prove itself to be a major force in a tough market. James Sterbenz Computer and Communications Research Center Washington University in St. Louis +1 314 726 4203 INTERNET: jps@wucs1.wustl.edu 128.252.123.12 UUCP: wucs1!jps@uunet.uu.net
andrew@alice.UUCP (Andrew Hume) (12/20/89)
eric asks Why should I buy Steve Jobs's Mac-on-steroids closed-architecture box when I can get cheaper, faster commodity iron with better standards conformance based on the 386? the software on the next, as well as the general user interface, makes everything i've seen on a 386 (or any other overrated intel processor) about as attractive as post-tertiary syphyllis. it may be slow without a hard disk, but what i've seen is slick and easy to use and so much more usable than other people's stuff. still, this is just one primate's opinion.
madd@world.std.com (jim frost) (12/22/89)
eric@snark.uu.net (Eric S. Raymond) writes: >Why should I buy Steve Jobs's Mac-on-steroids closed-architecture box when >I can get cheaper, faster commodity iron with better standards conformance >based on the 386? Built-in networking support. Pretty nice user-interface. Large FAST bitmapped screen (buy one for your 386 box and tell me where you got it if you got it for <$1,000 -- I would like one but the monitors are nearly that much). State-of-the-art OS (for better or for worse, but at least it's not SysV). Online literature and dictionary with a pretty fancy librarian (that in itself is worth much of the cost of the machine to me). Fairly cheap high-capacity removable media (want a real disk in there though). Wonderful sound support. The next box isn't cheap, but for what you pay you sure get a lot. If you built a 386 box with comparable value-added, you'd pay quite a bit more than NeXT is asking. The base price is a lot lower, but the base configuration doesn't even compare. For a comparable system with the 386 you need: * 386 (cheap, available everywhere, no problem) * Operating system (ISC 386/ix, for instance). * Disk. At least 250Mb since that's what the NeXT has. Removable would be nice but it'd cost more than the 386 itself so you might as well just get most disks. * Memory (this means buying a 32-bit expansion board in addition to the 4-7mb of memory you'll probably have to buy). * High-resolution bitmapped screen (nonstandard but there are some out there -- add at least $1500 for this; more if you want greyscale [if you can find such a thing]). * Sound processing board (oh boy is this expensive). * X11 (usually an option to the operating system). * C compiler (usually an option to the operating system). * Online dictionary (you can get a CD-ROM w/ dictionary for about $1000, maybe a bit less). I haven't even gone into the real software stuff that NeXT supplies. The NeXT is certainly a better deal than your average 386 box, although I think I'd get a SPARCstation if given the choice. My point isn't to buy a NeXT box, but to compare comparable systems. The 386 machines do better than a comparably equipped Mac, but they aren't cheaper than NeXT. Happy hacking, jim frost madd@std.com
wbeebe@bilver.UUCP (bill beebe) (12/24/89)
In article <10265@alice.UUCP> andrew@alice.UUCP (Andrew Hume) writes: > >the software on the next, as well as the general user interface, >makes everything i've seen on a 386 (or any other overrated intel >processor) about as attractive as post-tertiary syphyllis. > I find the NeXT software tools the best part of the machine. The hardware lookls little better than a Mac-wanna-be. If someone could find a decent way to port the NeXT software tools so that they would be reasonably small in code size, fast, and affordable, then maybe we could junk Windows and OS/2/PM for the Interface For The Rest of Us. But I doubt it will happen.
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (01/01/90)
In article <1989Dec22.015032.5863@world.std.com> madd@world.std.com (jim frost) writes: > My point isn't to buy a NeXT box, but to compare comparable systems. > The 386 machines do better than a comparably equipped Mac, but > they aren't cheaper than NeXT. Yeh, but you don't have to buy it all at once. You can get on board for 3 grand for a usably fast system, instead of 10 grand. And System V might not have all the bells and whistles, but apart from the abhorrent IPC (which isn't that much worse than BSDs) it's a hell of a lot cleaner. V.4 should satisfy even the most whacked out Berkeleyoid (like I used to be before I discovered what System V.3.2 has in /etc/conf). Maybe A System V.4/Mach port will let us dump the crap (shmget, ipc.h, select) simply by not loading their respective daemons from /etc/rc2.d. -- `-_-' Peter da Silva. +1 713 274 5180. <peter@ficc.uu.net>. 'U` Also <peter@ficc.lonestar.org> or <peter@sugar.lonestar.org>. "It was just dumb luck that Unix managed to break through the Stupidity Barrier and become popular in spite of its inherent elegance." -- gavin@krypton.sgi.com