crichmon@digi.lonestar.org (Charles Richmond) (05/25/91)
Fifteen or so years ago I heard that in the '60's there were
computers constructed that ran from air pressure. No electronics,
just air pressure. These were constructed to fly through the
high-radiation van Alyn (sp?) belt that surrounds the earth.
Electronic computers were driven mad by the radiation, so the
pneumatic computers (although much slower) were used.
Does anybody know about this? Are any such computers in
existence today? (Hey, even if you only HEARD about it, that
would indicate that I did not dream it . . .)
I would like to learn about the construction and technology
involved with these pneumatic machines.
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Charles Richmond crichmon@digi.lonestar.orgpeter@ficc.ferranti.com (peter da silva) (05/25/91)
In article <1991May24.231620.15367@digi.lonestar.org>, crichmon@digi.lonestar.org (Charles Richmond) writes: > Fifteen or so years ago I heard that in the '60's there were > computers constructed that ran from air pressure. Sure, fluidic computers had a lot of advantages over electronics. Apart from the EMI resistence, they're quite rugged in other ways. Plus, there's a major savings on transducers: you can often feed a signal in mechanically, from pressure and position sensors. I visited an old WWII-era sub once, the HMAS ocvens, and navigation was supported by fluidic hardware. > I would like to learn about the construction and technology > involved with these pneumatic machines. There was a Scientific American article on it 10 or so years ago. Check your local library. Pre-'80s Scientific Americans are fun to read anyway. BTW: Putting "followup-to: net" is a good way not to get answers. -- Peter da Silva; Ferranti International Controls Corporation; +1 713 274 5180; Sugar Land, TX 77487-5012; `-_-' "Have you hugged your wolf, today?"
zs@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Zoltan Somogyi) (05/26/91)
In article <1991May24.231620.15367@digi.lonestar.org>, crichmon@digi.lonestar.org (Charles Richmond) writes: > I would like to learn about the construction and technology > involved with these pneumatic machines. %A R.S. Gluskin %A M. Jacoby %A T.D. Reader %T FLODAC - a pure fluid digital computer %J Proceedings of the AFIPS Fall Joint Computer Conference %C San Francisco, California %D October 1964 %K fjcc fjcc64 %P 631-641 Zoltan Somogyi zs@cs.mu.OZ.AU
durr@fys.ruu.nl (Eugene Durr) (05/27/91)
In <_1KBHZB@xds13.ferranti.com> peter@ficc.ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes: >In article <1991May24.231620.15367@digi.lonestar.org>, crichmon@digi.lonestar.org (Charles Richmond) writes: >> Fifteen or so years ago I heard that in the '60's there were >> computers constructed that ran from air pressure. >Sure, fluidic computers had a lot of advantages over electronics. Apart from >the EMI resistence, they're quite rugged in other ways. Plus, there's a >major savings on transducers: you can often feed a signal in mechanically, >from pressure and position sensors. I visited an old WWII-era sub once, the >HMAS ocvens, and navigation was supported by fluidic hardware. >> I would like to learn about the construction and technology >> involved with these pneumatic machines. >There was a Scientific American article on it 10 or so years ago. Check your >local library. Pre-'80s Scientific Americans are fun to read anyway. In the late 70's a company named Atlas Copco from Sweden had an entire product range with pneumatic logic components especially for control applications. They did some simple calculations with them. Maybe they can help you on much more information. Their main office is in Stockholm, but they have representatives in many countries. I know, because my father was an employee there.
pi@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Paul Ilgenfritz) (05/28/91)
I think that some of the critical backup computing in advanced military jets is done with fluid pneumatic devices. If EMP or other failures occur, the plane can still land. Check out some military sources to confirm.
tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner) (05/28/91)
About 8 years ago I undertook a feasibility study to determine whether fluidic/hydraulic logic should be replace by microprocessors in a certain application area. The conclusion: hydraulic logic was better. The area was sequencing interlocks for the underwater gas/oil valves on unmanned offshore oil platforms. Gory technical details: running pressure was 2000-4000psi. AND gates cost $60 each. Simple flip-flops were available.
daugher@cs.tamu.edu (Walter C. Daugherity) (05/28/91)
In article <1991May24.231620.15367@digi.lonestar.org> crichmon@digi.lonestar.org (Charles Richmond) writes: |Fifteen or so years ago I heard that in the '60's there were |computers constructed that ran from air pressure. No electronics, |just air pressure. These were constructed to fly through the |high-radiation van Alyn (sp?) belt that surrounds the earth. |Electronic computers were driven mad by the radiation, so the |pneumatic computers (although much slower) were used. | |Does anybody know about this? Are any such computers in |existence today? (Hey, even if you only HEARD about it, that |would indicate that I did not dream it . . .) | |I would like to learn about the construction and technology |involved with these pneumatic machines. | |- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | | Charles Richmond crichmon@digi.lonestar.org Yes, pneumatic computers are still around and under development by military contractors. One model can even be operated by blowing into it (i.e., the human lung is the backup compressor). They're slow due to mechanical moving parts, but miniturization should help. As important as the ability to function under radiation is the ability to survive the electromagnetic pulse from a nuclear explosion, which will render conventional computers inoperable. P.S. It's "Van Allen" as in "James Alfred Van Allen," who would be around 77 if he's still alive. Walter C. Daugherity Internet, NeXTmail: daugher@cs.tamu.edu Texas A & M University uucp: uunet!cs.tamu.edu!daugher College Station, TX 77843-3112 BITNET: DAUGHER@TAMVENUS ---Not an official document of Texas A&M--- -- Walter C. Daugherity Internet, NeXTmail: daugher@cs.tamu.edu Texas A & M University uucp: uunet!cs.tamu.edu!daugher College Station, TX 77843-3112 BITNET: DAUGHER@TAMVENUS ---Not an official document of Texas A&M---
kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov ( Scott Dorsey) (05/29/91)
In article <78170002@otter.hpl.hp.com> tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner) writes: >About 8 years ago I undertook a feasibility study to determine whether >fluidic/hydraulic logic should be replace by microprocessors in a certain >application area. The conclusion: hydraulic logic was better. I recommend that you take a look inside an automatic transmission. It's far from being a von Neumann machine, but it is definitely real logic. --scott
hamish@mate.sybase.com (Just Another Deckchair on the Titanic) (05/29/91)
In article <1991May24.231620.15367@digi.lonestar.org> crichmon@digi.lonestar.org (Charles Richmond) writes: >Fifteen or so years ago I heard that in the '60's there were >computers constructed that ran from air pressure. No electronics, >just air pressure. [...] > >Does anybody know about this? Are any such computers in >existence today? (Hey, even if you only HEARD about it, that >would indicate that I did not dream it . . .) Sure - pneumatic logic (including a whole array of "gates" and logical units) used to be (still is?) common in situations where *any* RF or current can cause problems - oil refineries, for example. The refinery I worked at (as a process control engineer) used a central pneumatic "computer", itself controlled by remote Numalogic PLCs and LSI-11s, to control remote valves with long runs of compressed air (Nitrogen? Probably something less encouraging to fire than air...). The remote valves were invariably in places were the slightest possibility of a spark had to be ruled out. The "computer" was a giant board with a lot of transparent tubing going into mechanical gates that looked like, well, water taps (faucets for Americans) with rather precise plumbing fixtures implementing the logic. The PLCs controlled an monitored these gates with position sensors, etc. A lot of fun.... Hamish ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hamish Reid Sybase Inc, 6475 Christie Ave, Emeryville CA 94608 USA +1 415 596-3917 hamish@sybase.com ...!{mtxinu,sun}!sybase!hamish
bdg@ccc.amdahl.com (Blaine Gaither) (05/29/91)
I remember proposing an automated tape mounting system at Burroughs
which used a pneumatic "and" to select cartridges. The cartridge was
to be blown out of the cell (better yet floated) and then gravity fed
to a belt and then to a drive. Cartridge replacement was via xy
Plotter means.
This reduced access time, but would have been very hard on tapes.
--
Blaine Gaither
Amdahl Corporation
143 No. 2nd East St., Rexburg, Idaho 83440-1619
UUCP:{ames,decwrl,sun,uunet}!amdahl!tetons!bdg (208) 356-8915
INTERNET: bdg@tetons.idaho.amdahl.commhjohn@aspen.IAG.HP.COM (Mark Johnson) (05/29/91)
In about 1971, I saw a series of pneumatic control gates, flip-flops, etc. at a french automation installation company. Each gate was a machined piece of steel. There were rows of holes to interconnect the gates at one end of each gate. Full circuits were constructed by stacking up the two inch square by about 1/4 inch thick "wafers" alternating with gaskets to get the desired function. Four threaded bolts were run through the corners and nuts were torqued down to complete the assembly. The circuits could be a foot or so high and were very heavy. I was told that they were Russian technology and were useful in explosive atmospheres. If memory serves, IEEE spectrum ran a "whatever happened to" article a couple of years ago describing the technology.
jeremy@sw.oz.au (Jeremy Fitzhardinge) (05/30/91)
peter@ficc.ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes: >In article <1991May24.231620.15367@digi.lonestar.org>, crichmon@digi.lonestar.org (Charles Richmond) writes: >> I would like to learn about the construction and technology >> involved with these pneumatic machines. > >There was a Scientific American article on it 10 or so years ago. Check your >local library. Pre-'80s Scientific Americans are fun to read anyway. More like 20 years I think - I think it was in one of my late-60's early-70's issues I saw it in. Other similarly dated SciAm's have articles on acoustic holography and the suchlike. -- jeremy@softway.sw.oz.au ph:+61 2 698 2322-x122 fax:+61 2 699 9174 "Hi Barbie, I'm your plastique surgeon, Roger. Are you ready for your Semtex augmentation?"... "John Thompson died for you" society meets now. I opine for the fjords, nothing else.
rbw00@ccc.amdahl.com ( 213 Richard Wilmot) (05/30/91)
Pneumatic computers should be banned and their designers sentenced to
repair all malfunctions in them forever. I worked for two years with
a pneumatic control system on a destroyer escort. This Westinghouse
thing controlled two diesel engines (nice Fairbanks Morse double
opposed piston 8"X20") and the clutches which combined their power
onto a propeller shaft. The tiny air valves were forever sticking
and jamming so that it was hard to restart the engines in reverse
(to back up or slow down). After counselling from the chaplain
I forgave Westinghouse, but only because it was built in 1943. This
is now later enough that there should be no excuse. Just say NO.
--
Dick Wilmot | I declaim that Amdahl might disclaim any of my claims.
(408) 746-6108mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) (06/02/91)
For more information on fluidics, see the December 1964 Scientific American.
osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (andrew.vida-szucs) (06/08/91)
In article <_1KBHZB@xds13.ferranti.com> peter@ficc.ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes: >In article <1991May24.231620.15367@digi.lonestar.org>, crichmon@digi.lonestar.org (Charles Richmond) writes: >> Fifteen or so years ago I heard that in the '60's there were >> computers constructed that ran from air pressure. > > >> I would like to learn about the construction and technology >> involved with these pneumatic machines. Go to library and look under topic "Fluid Logic". If said library is worth anything for scientific/engineering topics, you should be able to find *lots* of information. Most if not all of it will relate specifically to hydraulics, but the principles are the same. Fluid logic is still in heavy use in industry, and probably will be for a long time to come. It is used to control things like heavy machinery. It has and/or 'gates' just as in silicon. Interesting stuff.
paj@mrcu (Paul Johnson) (06/11/91)
>In article <_1KBHZB@xds13.ferranti.com> peter@ficc.ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes: >>In article <1991May24.231620.15367@digi.lonestar.org>, crichmon@digi.lonestar.org (Charles Richmond) writes: >>> Fifteen or so years ago I heard that in the '60's there were >>> computers constructed that ran from air pressure. [....] > Go to library and look under topic "Fluid Logic". [....] If you are ever in Paris, visit the Musee' Cite' (or something like that). It is the Paris museum of science and technology. One of the exhibits is this truly amazing 4 bit adder constructed of tubes and siphons with water feeding through them under gravity. You punch in two 4 bit numbers on a control panel and hit the GO button. Valves open and close at the top, the whole thing bubbles and gurgles for about 30 seconds, and tubes shaped as 1's and 0's fill up at the bottom with the Answer (not 42). Paul. -- Paul Johnson | Isn't modern education wonderful: one size fits all! -------------^------------------v-------------------------v------------------- GEC-Marconi Research is not | Telex: 995016 GECRES G | Tel: +44 245 73331 responsible for my opinions. | Inet: paj@gec-mrc.co.uk | Fax: +44 245 75244
brent@uwovax.uwo.ca (Brent Sterner) (06/15/91)
In article <959@snap.mrcu>, paj@mrcu (Paul Johnson) writes: > If you are ever in Paris, visit the Musee' Cite' (or something like > that). It is the Paris museum of science and technology. One of the > exhibits is this truly amazing 4 bit adder constructed of tubes and > siphons with water feeding through them under gravity. You punch in > two 4 bit numbers on a control panel and hit the GO button. Valves > open and close at the top, the whole thing bubbles and gurgles for > about 30 seconds, and tubes shaped as 1's and 0's fill up at the > bottom with the Answer (not 42). That posting rang a bell! But I don't remember where. I've seen a similar demo using (as I recall) tennis balls. (Not quite pneumatic; perhaps a bit closer to quantum mechanics. ;-) b. -- Brent Sterner Manager, Academic Technical Support Fast: <BRENT@uwo.ca> <BRENT@UWOVAX.BITNET> <129.100.2.13> Telephone (519)661-2151 x6036 Slow: Computing & Communications Services, Natural Sciences Building The University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada N6A 5B7
rmilner@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Ruth Milner) (06/15/91)
In article <959@snap.mrcu>, paj@mrcu (Paul Johnson) writes: > If you are ever in Paris, visit the Musee' Cite' (or something like > that). It is the Paris museum of science and technology. The Cit\'e des Sciences. Terrific place, but brush up on your French before you go, because all the explanations are in French - or were, 18 months ago. Another wonderful technology museum, with an *incredible* computer section, is the Deutsches Museum in Munich. They have a Cray 1 in there, as well as numerous calculating machines that go waaaaay back. Plan on a couple of days, and don't go when you're so hung over that all you want to do is sleep :-). -- Ruth Milner Systems Manager NRAO/VLA Socorro NM Computing Division Head rmilner@zia.aoc.nrao.edu