mcdonald@Daisy.EE.UND.AC.ZA (Bruce J McDonald) (06/25/91)
I have been hearing news about the new 88k MPU from moto but, alas, the details are skimpy. In particular I would like to know: 1. Code compatibility and changes 2. Hardware changes. 3. Cache arrangement ( esp. related to 88200 ) 4. Timings and benchmarks. 5. Systems using it 6. Future directions of 88k family and Moto's RISC strategy. With thanks Bruce McDonald
mslater@cup.portal.com (Michael Z Slater) (06/27/91)
>I have been hearing news about the new 88k MPU from moto but, alas, the >details are skimpy. In particular I would like to know: > The 88110 has not been announced, Moto has only given some sketchy previews, so some of the info you want isn't yet public. >1. Code compatibility and changes 80-bit floating-point and graphics unit are added; I expect it will be fully upward compatible with 88100 code. >2. Hardware changes. >3. Cache arrangement ( esp. related to 88200 ) On-chip 8K instruction and data caches, graphics unit, two integer units, superscalar instruction dispatch. >4. Timings and benchmarks. 3-5 times 88100. That's all Moto will say. >5. Systems using it None yet - I don't think Moto has silicon. >6. Future directions of 88k family and Moto's RISC strategy. If the IBM/Apple deal goes through, which looks likely at this point, the future of the 88000 is in serious doubt. Motorola is likely to make RS/6000 processors, and this is likely to divert most of its design efforts. Stay tuned -- an announcement is expected soon. Michael Slater, Microprocessor Report mslater@cup.portal.com 707/823-4004 fax: 707/823-0504
mc@flutter.tv.tek.com (Mike Coleman) (06/27/91)
In article <43704@cup.portal.com> mslater@cup.portal.com (Michael Z Slater) writes: > If the IBM/Apple deal goes through, which looks likely at this point, the > future of the 88000 is in serious doubt. Motorola is likely to make RS/6000 > processors, and this is likely to divert most of its design efforts. What about all the 88k's that will be going into Ford automobiles? It seems like that will be a major chunk of business for them. Mike Coleman mc@flutter.tv.tek.com
tve@sprite.berkeley.edu (Thorsten von Eicken) (06/27/91)
In article <43704@cup.portal.com> mslater@cup.portal.com (Michael Z Slater) writes: >If the IBM/Apple deal goes through, which looks likely at this point, the >future of the 88000 is in serious doubt. Motorola is likely to make RS/6000 >processors, and this is likely to divert most of its design efforts. Huh? Did I miss an article? What's this deal about? Can someone enlighten me? Thorsten von Eicken (tve@sprite.berkeley.edu)
glew@pdx007.intel.com (Andy Glew) (06/27/91)
>If the IBM/Apple deal goes through, which looks likely at this point, the >future of the 88000 is in serious doubt. Motorola is likely to make RS/6000 >processors, and this is likely to divert most of its design efforts. What about Ford choosing the 88K family as embedded controllers. Wouldn't that strongly encourage Moto to keep the 88K around? Or is there not enough profit in embedded controllers? -- Andy Glew, glew@ichips.intel.com Intel Corp., M/S JF1-19, 5200 NE Elam Young Parkway, Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-6497 This is a private posting; it does not indicate opinions or positions of Intel Corp.
kan@bugs-bunny.rtp.dg.com (Victor Kan) (06/28/91)
I hope this didn't get out twice! >>>>> On 27 Jun 91 04:44:37 GMT, mc@flutter.tv.tek.com (Mike Coleman) said: Mike> In article <43704@cup.portal.com> mslater@cup.portal.com (Michael Z Slater) writes: > If the IBM/Apple deal goes through, which looks likely at this point, the > future of the 88000 is in serious doubt. Motorola is likely to make RS/6000 > processors, and this is likely to divert most of its design efforts. Mike> What about all the 88k's that will be going into Ford automobiles? It seems like that Mike> will be a major chunk of business for them. IBM/Japan is selling Stratus 88k-based machines which will be launched in the U.S. this fall. Hmmm...I wonder which is projected to ship more units: IBM RS/6000s and SparcStations, or Ford F-150 trucks and Escorts? Does anyone have sales projections on the workstation/minicomputer and automobile markets? I would guess that the workstation/minicomputer market (excluding PCs, Macs, etc.) ships maybe O(100,000) units per year. I would guess that the automobile industry ships maybe O(1,000,000) units per year. Assuming Sparcs will be in 2/5 of all WS/mini shipments and 88ks will be in 1/5 of all new car shipments, the 88k appears to fare quite well on sheer volume. I think it's unlikely that Motorola will be putting an 881x0 CPU into a black box to control a car's engine. That would be a waste of money; my guess is that there will be a special version of the 88k for embedded applications. Who knows; maybe they will use an 881x0 in there and add stuff like a heads up display controller with online graphical roadmaps that respond to voice commands! Just call me KITT :-). -- | Victor Kan | I speak only for myself. | *** | Data General Corporation | Edo emacibus, ergo sum. | **** | 62 T.W. Alexander Drive | Columbia Lions Win, 8 October 1988 for | **** %%%% | RTP, NC 27709 | a record of 1-44. Way to go, Lions! | *** %%%
kratz@bnr.ca (Geoff Kratz) (06/28/91)
In article <KAN.91Jun27164837@bugs-bunny.rtp.dg.com> kan@bugs-bunny.rtp.dg.com (Victor Kan) writes: >IBM/Japan is selling Stratus 88k-based machines which will be launched >in the U.S. this fall. Are you sure you have this right? Stratus has announced an i860-based family, but has never discussed 88K based machines. I don't recall Stratus ever talking about an 88K-based machine. IBM does sell a product called "System 88", but this is basically the 68K-based Stratus rebadged for IBM. -- Geoff Kratz Bell-Northern Research, Ltd. kratz@bnr.ca (OSI) Open Systems Ottawa Ontario Canada
dswartz@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) (06/28/91)
In article <KAN.91Jun27164837@bugs-bunny.rtp.dg.com> kan@bugs-bunny.rtp.dg.com (Victor Kan) writes: :I hope this didn't get out twice! : :::::: On 27 Jun 91 04:44:37 GMT, mc@flutter.tv.tek.com (Mike Coleman) said: : :Mike> In article <43704@cup.portal.com> mslater@cup.portal.com (Michael Z Slater) writes: : : :: If the IBM/Apple deal goes through, which looks likely at this point, the :: future of the 88000 is in serious doubt. Motorola is likely to make RS/6000 :: processors, and this is likely to divert most of its design efforts. : :Mike: What about all the 88k's that will be going into Ford automobiles? It seems like that :Mike: will be a major chunk of business for them. : :IBM/Japan is selling Stratus 88k-based machines which will be launched :in the U.S. this fall. : This is news to me! Stratus doesn't make any 88K-based products! (We were going to a couple of years ago, but switched to the 80860.) :Hmmm...I wonder which is projected to ship more units: : :IBM RS/6000s and SparcStations, or Ford F-150 trucks and Escorts? : :Does anyone have sales projections on the workstation/minicomputer and :automobile markets? : :I would guess that the workstation/minicomputer market (excluding PCs, :Macs, etc.) ships maybe O(100,000) units per year. I would guess that :the automobile industry ships maybe O(1,000,000) units per year. : :Assuming Sparcs will be in 2/5 of all WS/mini shipments and 88ks will :be in 1/5 of all new car shipments, the 88k appears to fare quite :well on sheer volume. : :I think it's unlikely that Motorola will be putting an 881x0 CPU into :a black box to control a car's engine. That would be a waste of :money; my guess is that there will be a special version of the 88k for :embedded applications. : :Who knows; maybe they will use an 881x0 in there and add stuff like a :heads up display controller with online graphical roadmaps that :respond to voice commands! : :Just call me KITT :-). : :-- :| Victor Kan | I speak only for myself. | *** :| Data General Corporation | Edo emacibus, ergo sum. | **** :| 62 T.W. Alexander Drive | Columbia Lions Win, 8 October 1988 for | **** %%%% :| RTP, NC 27709 | a record of 1-44. Way to go, Lions! | *** %%% -- Dan S.
jcb@NCD.COM (Jim Becker) (06/29/91)
kan@bugs-bunny.rtp.dg.com (Victor Kan) writes:
Mike> What about all the 88k's that will be going into Ford automobiles?
Mike> It seems like that will be a major chunk of business for them.
IBM/Japan is selling Stratus 88k-based machines which will be launched
in the U.S. this fall.
Hmmm...I wonder which is projected to ship more units:
IBM RS/6000s and SparcStations, or Ford F-150 trucks and Escorts?
Does anyone have sales projections on the workstation/minicomputer and
automobile markets?
I would guess that the workstation/minicomputer market (excluding PCs,
Macs, etc.) ships maybe O(100,000) units per year. I would guess that
the automobile industry ships maybe O(1,000,000) units per year.
an estimate in a business magazine (either Fortune or Business Week)
said _six_ million... kinda makes the workstation market look like
small potatoes, eh? :-)
now the big question is are Fords Open Look or Motif?
-Jim
--
--
-Jim Becker / jcb@ncd.com / Network Computing Devices, Inc. (NCD)mslater@cup.portal.com (Michael Z Slater) (06/29/91)
>>If the IBM/Apple deal goes through, which looks likely at this point, the >>future of the 88000 is in serious doubt. Motorola is likely to make RS/6000 >>processors, and this is likely to divert most of its design efforts. > >What about Ford choosing the 88K family as embedded controllers. >Wouldn't that strongly encourage Moto to keep the 88K around? >Or is there not enough profit in embedded controllers? The Ford deal will keep Motorola's fab lines going--Ford makes about 6 million vehicles a year, and plans eventually to use the 88K-based controller across-the-board. But it won't do much for workstation users. The Ford version will have on-chip peripherals that don't make any sense for a workstation, and it won't try to increase performance beyond the current implementation (which already provides more performance than Ford has use for in the near term). The focus will be on low cost and high integration, not high performance. The embedded versions of the 88K will therefore follow a different development path, with little benefit for workstation-oriented versions. In any case, latest reports are that the IBM/Apple deal has hit a snag, so Apple may use the 88110 after all. Perhaps we should save the speculation for after Apple finally makes up its mind. On thing is clear from what has gone on so far, however: Apple's desires will sway Motorola's plans to a major degree, and companies such as DG may get hung out to dry. Michael Slater, Microprocessor Report mslater@cup.portal.com