[sci.bio] counterexamples to creationism

hes@ecsvax.UUCP (Henry Schaffer) (01/31/88)

In article <1651@brahma.cs.hw.ac.uk>, jack@cs.hw.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
> Most creationists love to say that nobody has ever observed a new species
> being created. I know this is wrong but I couldn't actually cite a specific
> counterexample. Bacteria must be easy; I vaguely remember reading about
> a new species of mosquito. I suppose something warm and fluffy might be too
> much to ask for, but can someone post some examples of observed speciation
> in reasonably complex life forms?
> -- 
> ARPA: jack%cs.glasgow.ac.uk@nss.cs.ucl.ac.uk
> JANET:jack@uk.ac.glasgow.cs       USENET: ...mcvax!ukc!cs.glasgow.ac.uk!jack
> Mail: Jack Campin, Computing Science Department, University of Glasgow,
>       17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland (041 339 8855 x 6045)


Look it up in a genetics or botany text.  (I discussed it at length a couple
of years ago - I'll look to see if I still have something on it.)

Briefly - in an attempt to get a plant which had raddish root and a cabbage
head, the two were crossed (genera are Raphanus and Brassica) - after the
chromosomes of the (sterile) hybrid were doubled - there was a self-fertile
plant which could not breed with either the raddish or cabbage parental
species.

Does this count?

--henry schaffer  n c state univ

P.S.  It doesn't pay to fool around with Mother Nature - Raphanobrassica
has a cabbage root and a raddish top!

ajw@manatee.cis.ufl.edu (Andy Wilcox) (02/05/88)

I recently heard of a new kind of cat, the 'King Cheetah' that has
been observed wherever they live (African plains, I guess).  It is a 
very beautiful animal, similiar to the cheetah but with large ovals
replacing the spots.  If you've ever seen a butterfly tabby domestic
cat you know what I mean.  Does this qualify as a new species?

In addition, there was some kind of moth in England that changed color
with the industrial revolution to match the color of the (now
blackened) tree trunks.  This was due to the birds eating the light
colored moths.  There was no guess as to why the king cheetah occured.
If this show ever comes around on Discovery again, I'll pay closer 
attention.

--Andy Wilcox
  (ajw@manatee.cis.ufl.edu)  

gagen@bgsuvax.UUCP (kathleen gagen) (02/06/88)

From article <10628@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, by ajw@manatee.cis.ufl.edu (Andy Wilcox):
> 
> In addition, there was some kind of moth in England that changed color
> with the industrial revolution to match the color of the (now
> blackened) tree trunks.  This was due to the birds eating the light
> colored moths.  

This is not an example of speciation.  It is my understanding that the
original moths included mostly light colored moths with an occassional
rare dark moth.  Befor the industrial revolution, the light colored moths
had a selective advantage due to protective coloration.  The advant of the
industrial revolution was accompanied by a change in the environment.  
Industrial soot turned the environment black.  As a result, the few rare
dark moths blended in with their environment while the light moths were
more easily seen by the birds looking for dinner.  As a result, a progressively
larger proportion of dark moths survived and reproduced while a progressively
larger proportion of light colored moths were eaten.  Gobbled moths leave
few progeny.  As a result, there was an increase in the frequency of genes
coding for dark coloration.  This progressive shift in gene frequency over
several generations resulted in dark coloration becomming the dominant
phenotype.

A review of this phenomemon can be obtained from any good evolutionary
genetics test.

----
Kathi Gagen

-- 
 Kathleen Pausic Gagen                       ...!cbosgd!osu-cis!bgsuvax!gagen
 Dept. of Biological Sciences                        gagen@research1.bgsu.edu
 Bowling Green State University             gagen%bgsu.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
 Bowling Green Ohio 43403               gagen%andy.bgsu.edu@csnet-relay.csnet