andy@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Andy Clews) (08/13/90)
I'd already heard about the effectiveness of using soap to control aphids, and I decided to try it on some of my plants that were infested. The affected plants are dwarf Dahlias and a patch of Mesembryanthemum. The aphids are also attracting large numbers of ants, which are "farming" them for the honeydew. So, I made a solution of bio-degradable washing-up liquid (one large squirt to a pint of water) in a spray bottle, and treated the affected areas. To my surprise, the ants seemed to be stopped in the tracks upon contact with the spray, and they seemed to be dead within seconds! I tried it on a wasp too, and the same effect was obtained, although more spray was needed. The same solution was remarkably effective against scale insects on some orange trees which I have growing in tubs outside during the summer. Can anyone tell me why detergent is apparently so lethal to insects? And if this is so, why don't people use it in preference to all those nasty chemicals? -- Andy Clews, Computing Service, Univ. of Sussex, Brighton BN1 9QN, England JANET: andy@syma.sussex.ac.uk BITNET: andy%syma.sussex.ac.uk@uk.ac
klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee) (08/16/90)
In article <3237@syma.sussex.ac.uk>, andy@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Andy Clews) writes: |> Can anyone tell me why detergent is apparently so lethal to insects? And |> if this is so, why don't people use it in preference to all those nasty |> chemicals? Ordinary soap destroys the "skin" of most insects, killing them on contact. Many garden insecticides work this way. The major disadvantage is that it must directly contact the insect to have any effect. If you have an insect problem, you'll probably have to apply insecticidal soap every day or 2 until the problem is solved. Many chemical insecticides leave a poisionous residue that will kill insects for one or two weeks. Ken Lee DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif. Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
elmo@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Cabot) (08/16/90)
In article <3237@syma.sussex.ac.uk> andy@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Andy Clews) writes: >I'd already heard about the effectiveness of using soap to control >aphids, and I decided to try it on some of my plants that were infested. > >So, I made a solution of bio-degradable washing-up liquid (one large >squirt to a pint of water) in a spray bottle, and treated the affected areas. >To my surprise, the ants seemed to be stopped in the tracks upon contact > There is actually a firm in or near Victoria, British Colubia that has been marketing a line of insecticidal soaps for plants, cats and dogs under the name of SAFER soaps (TM). My inside sources at SAFER have indicated that these are not very different than ordinary liquid dish-soap (with maybe a little bit of perfume for Fido). As you have discovered, these soaps are quite effective. >Can anyone tell me why detergent is apparently so lethal to insects? And Well the SAFER people have been researching this but their findings are strictly hush-hush. My first guess, however would be that the soap somehow increases the permeablity of the waxy cuticle of an insect. This causes a poor little bug to dry out and die. >if this is so, why don't people use it in preference to all those nasty >chemicals? Well it could have something to do with the marketing budgets of companies like Dow and Shell Oil compared to little obscure firms and knowledge originating in places like The Farmer's Almanac or the Net.news. I mean soap is clean how can it kill bugs? Where as just one whiff of ortho is enough to convince you that the stuff is lethal. > -- =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Eric Cabot | elmo@{uhura | db1}.cc.rochester.edu "insert your face here" | elmo@urodbv.bitnet =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
andy@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Andy Clews) (08/16/90)
A couple of people have asked me which brands of detergent I used. I doubt that the same ones will be available in the US, but here goes anyway - at least it will help UK readers. The first one is marketed by a Belgian company and is called Ecover, a name which is common to many other "environment-friendly" cleaning products that they do. It's based on coconut oil and is more or less colourless but opaque. The second is marketed by the UK supermarket chain, Safeway, and is called "Ecologic", again a name common to several cleaning products that they do. This stuff is green and is lemon scented. Both products are dishwashing liquids. I suspect that the brand is not important. This is the first time I've tried soap on aphids and these are the ones that happened to be in my kitchen. I think any other detergent will be just as effective - it's just that I prefer the biodegradable stuff. Hope this helps. -- Andy Clews, Computing Service, Univ. of Sussex, Brighton BN1 9QN, England JANET: andy@syma.sussex.ac.uk BITNET: andy%syma.sussex.ac.uk@uk.ac
sheriffp@spock (Peter Sheriff) (08/17/90)
I am not sure of the answer to your question but this year I tried
spraying my lawn with a mix of ammonia and a detergent type product
called Basic H from Shaklee. My lawn has never looked so healthy. Last
year I came back from my vacation and the lawn was devastated by cinch
bugs and lack of water. This year there is no sign of cinch bug damage
and over two weeks of hot sun and little rain had little effect on the
lawn.
Peteddeutsch@bbn.com (Debra Deutsch) (08/17/90)
Surprisingly enough, Ecover products are marketed in the USA. I can buy them at two supermarket chains in the Boston area (Bread and Circus, also Star Market). Also, there are quite a number of Safeways in the USA. I think it is the biggest supermarket chain in the USA but for some reason there are none around here, so I don't know if they sell Ecologic. Happy gardening, Debbie Deutsch
JAHAYES@MIAMIU.BITNET (08/17/90)
Ecover is available in the U.S., but I don't know how easy it will be to find it. We buy (bought) it at Wheatsville Co-op in Austin, Texas, but can't find it up here in the Cincinnati area. Look for PC (politically correct) stores; they're the most likely to stock such responsible products. - - - - - - Josh Hayes, Zoology Department, Miami University, Oxford OH 45056 voice: 513-529-1679 fax: 513-529-6900 jahayes@miamiu.bitnet, or jahayes@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. [Fudd's first law of opposition]
lv08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lili Velez) (08/19/90)
I had read once that detergents in water kill insects by removing their
waterproofing....that is, the detergent breaks down a coating on the out
side of the insect, and the water gets into the areas meant for respiration..
...the result is that the insects drown. But I don't know if this is the
exact reason, nor do I know why the effect is so rapid.
As for why detergents and water are not used instead of chemical compounds
like chlorinated hydrcarbons.... the detergent and water mix has to be
sprayed directly on the insects, and obviously won't work once the water has
evaporated. So it's good for getting the bugs that you can see, and in-
effective on insects which arrive when you're not around.
A passing biology student suggests that perhaps the insects don't so much
drown exactly; the water gets into the respiration areas and damages the
oxygen-carbon dioxide transfer membranes, such that they wouldn't be able to
breathe even if they did make it out of the water quickly.
In any event, they die.
Lili Fox Velez
lv08@andrew.cmu.edu
Dept. of English/Dept. of Biology
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
"History is an angel being blown backward into the future."
--- Laurie Anderson