ROODE@SRI-NIC.ARPA (David Roode) (02/20/84)
I sometimes wish the so-called envelope information on an SMTP transaction coming into my host were retained once the message was delivered to its appropriate mailbox. The motivation is that there are multiple names by which my mailbox may be refered to. Sometimes it would be useful to be able to identify which was used for a particular message, but that information is not listed in the standard headers. This would be the case for example when an alias had been placed on a mailing list at another site. The complete distribution is not shown in the message body because it is too long. I mention this because some people seem to feel that the user wishes to be saved from ever seeing the envelope, which is currently generally only partially available (in the form of the return path). I contend that full retention of envelope information is necessary for the user agent to function fully. -------
MRC@SU-SCORE.ARPA (Mark Crispin) (02/20/84)
You cannot retain all the envelope information in a user-accessible place, because this would defeat the purpose of bcc's. -------
ka@hou3c.UUCP (Kenneth Almquist) (02/21/84)
It seems to me that the controversy over what belongs in the envelope and stuff that "has to be in the header for the benefit of networks that don't have any concept of 'envelope' information" is due to confusion over what RFC 822 is attempting to define. If RFC 822 is supposed to define a general purpose, network independent standard for mail transfer, then it should be complete. This implies that a "Currently-To:" field should be added to it so that a piece of mail can be sent to another system without providing a destination separately. A lower level protocal must be used underneath RFC 822 to actually transfer the mail. In the case of the ARPANET, that lower level transport could remove the "Return-Path:" and "Currently-To:" fields from the header and transmit them in the envelope. The receiving process would then restore the values to the header. Is there any explanation (other than confusion on the part of the writers about what they were trying to do) why RFC 822 contains "Return-Path:" but not "Currently-To:"? Kenneth Almquist
ron@brl-vgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie) (02/21/84)
I endorse the Currently-To: idea. It can be done without destroying the BCC protection for example it could be intermixed with the Recieved lines. Delivering-To: ron@Brl-Vgr Received: From BRL.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 20 Feb 84 21:38 EST Delivering-To: info-unix@Brl-Vgr Received: From Brl-Vld.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 20 Feb 84 21:30 EST Date: Mon, 20 Feb 84 21:29:06 EST From: Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn@brl-vld> To: hnij@bnl cc: info-unix@brl Subject: Re: file descriptors --> filenames In the above example the letter was Recieved on BRL from the user on the host BRL-VLD. INFO-UNIX@BRL routes to INFO-UNIX@BRL-VGR. It is the received there. INFO-UNIX is expanded and in turn delivered to me (RON@BRL-VGR). Our mail system, as well as others tries to keep the number of copies of a message down, this might be circumvented by adding these extra lines which make several slightly subtle changes. -Ron
mark@Berkeley.ARPA (02/22/84)
If we're going to go this far: Delivering-To: ron@Brl-Vgr Received: From BRL.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 20 Feb 84 21:38 EST Delivering-To: info-unix@Brl-Vgr Received: From Brl-Vld.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 20 Feb 84 21:30 EST why not just use the existing "for" subfield of Received, as provided in RFC822: Received: From BRL.ARPA by BRL-VGR for ron@Brl-Bgr via smtp; 20 Feb 84 21:38 EST Received: From Brl-Vld.ARPA by BRL for info-unix@Brl-Vgr via smtp; 20 Feb 84 21:30 EST By the way, this DOES seem like a good idea. Mark
wcwells%ucbopal.CC@Berkeley.ARPA (William C. Wells) (02/24/84)
Envelope Information - 1.1 Now that I have sent out my summary of basic message format header fields I would like to limit the discussion to "envelope information" (ie. my "postal heading" fields) in this discussion group (header-people@mit-mc/net.mail.headers). Discussion of the format in general and other headings should be in the "MsgGroup@brl/ net.mail.msggroup" where basic message format was discussed last year. To forestall some comments: Yes, I know that "stacked" Resent headings are incompatible with RFC 822. Now back to "envelope information". In defining the "postal heading" I was concerned with making a distinction between mail transport agent functions and user agent functions (a distinction that is not clear in RFC 822). At the time I was aware that the mail formatting/generation program could be different from the mail transport program(s) and that the mail formatting/generating program might be spooling output to the mail transport program for posting. I was thinking of the programs being on the same host, but the introduction of smart workstations (and personal microcomputers [pc]) adds a new twist to the problem. That is, how to identify mail transmissions and handle error messages when the user originates the message on a work station or pc and the mail transport agent (ie. "post office") is on another host. I do not think this latest twist is a problem if we make a clear distinction between mail transport agent header fields and user agent header fields. We will also have fewer problems if the fields that are allowed to be changed by the mail transport agent are limited. (Note: header munging or refiling messages across mail system gateways is a separate issue.) I think my postal heading fields can solve a number of these problems. In my postal heading I have defined the following fields: SUB-PART COMPONENT FIELD _____________________________________________________ Postal Postmark Posted-Date: Heading Posted-From: Post-ID: Postmaster: Return Field Return-Path: Relay Instructions Relay-To: Do-Not-Relay-To: Trace Fields Received: _____________________________________________________ The "Postmark" fields serve to identify each message transmission. --- My assumption is that a unique message identified by "Date" "From" and "Message-ID" (fields added by the user agent mail formatting/generation program) might be retransmitted to one or more addresses of the original message (for example, when the original message was returned to sender due to a host being down). The "Postmaster" field serves to identify the Postmaster of the of the originating mail transport agent. This is needed where one mail transport agent is serving several hosts, workstations and microcomputers. (This should handle the case where the originator of a message is not in the same mail domain as the Postmaster of the originating mail transport agent.) "Return-path" - same as RFC 822, with one note: In addition to the last mail transport agent adding this field, I think "gateway" mail transport agents should also add/modify this field.
wcwells%ucbopal.CC@Berkeley.ARPA (William C. Wells) (02/25/84)
Envelope Information - 1.1 correction Oh joy. My last message: Date: Fri, 24 Feb 84 11:30:26 pst From: wcwells@ucbopal (William C. Wells) Message-Id: <8402241930.AA20770@ucbopal.CC.Berkeley.ARPA> Subject: Re: envelope information was truncated when it was transmitted locally. Here is the bottom part again. Sorry for the repeat. ---- SUB-PART COMPONENT FIELD _____________________________________________________ Postal Postmark Posted-Date: Heading Posted-From: Post-ID: Postmaster: Return Field Return-Path: Relay Instructions Relay-To: Do-Not-Relay-To: Trace Fields Received: _____________________________________________________ The "Postmark" fields serve to identify each message transmission. --- My assumption is that a unique message identified by "Date" "From" and "Message-ID" (fields added by the user agent mail formatting/generation program) might be retransmitted to one or more addresses of the original message (for example, when the original message was returned to sender due to a host being down). The "Postmaster" field serves to identify the Postmaster of the of the originating mail transport agent. This is needed where one mail transport agent is serving several hosts, workstations and microcomputers. (This should handle the case where the originator of a message is not in the same mail domain as the Postmaster of the originating mail transport agent.) "Return-path" - same as RFC 822, with one note: In addition to the last mail transport agent adding(/modifying?) this field, I think "gateway" mail transport agents should also add/modify this field. The "Relay-to" field tells the receiving mail transport agent that he(/she?) is responsible only for forwarding the message to a specific list of addressee (not all addressee in the message heading). It takes precedence over addresses in the message heading. It may be used by either the mail transport agent or the user agent. One example of user agent use would be in the retransmission of a message which was returned to the sender, and the sender does not want to retransmit to all addressees but only to the addressee that did not get the message. The "Do-not-relay-to" field is intended to be used with collective addresses where mail transport agent has or is making delivery to specific member(s) of the collective address via other means (for example via an alternate mail system). This assumes the mail transport agent applying this field knows the composition of the collective address. "header-people@mit-mc.ARPA" is an example of a collective addresss. "Received" - same as RFC 822. Bill Wells, U.C. Berkeley wcwells@Berkeley.ARPA or ucbvax!wcwells
wcwells%ucbopal.CC@Berkeley.ARPA (William C. Wells) (03/01/84)
Since D.Brown has dropped by name into the pot, I guess it is time to dust off my "Basic Message Format" again. The "Currently-to" concept is the about the same as the "Relay-to" header field in my basic message format. I prefer "Relay-to" since it is already defined for military messages. For those that have not kept a copy of my basic message format header fields, here is a summary of the header fields. The "envelope information" is contained in the postal heading. ----- Basic Message Format - 2 - "Heading Components" Version 3 - 23 Feb 84 1. Basic Message Structure: Parts: Sub-parts: HEADING Transmission Heading Batch Heading Postal Heading Message Heading TEXT Message Text (Body of Message) ENDING Message Ending Postal Ending Batch Ending Transmission Ending The Internet text message format as defined by the "Standard for the Format of ARPA Internet Text Messages" (RFC 822) has a heading and a text. No ending is defined. Basic message format classifies header fields into two groups, Message Heading and Postal Heading fields. In addition to RFC 822 header fields there are additional header for use in the Postal Heading. No attempt has been made to define "Batch" or "Transmission" fields since these are more the concern of the network and the transport system being used. "Classification", "Precedence" and "Resent-Precedence" have been added to the Message Heading to permit user definition of these fields. 2. Basic Message Format Header Fields by Sub-Part and Component. POSTAL HEADING SUB-PART COMPONENT FIELD _____________________________________________________ Postal Postmark Posted-Date: Heading Posted-From: Post-ID: Postmaster: Return Field Return-Path: Relay Instructions Relay-To: Do-Not-Relay-To: Trace Fields Received: _____________________________________________________ MESSAGE HEADING SUB-PART COMPONENT FIELD _____________________________________________________ Readdressal Date-Time Resent-Date: Message Heading(s) Originator's Resent-From: Address Resent-Sender: Resent-Reply-To: Originator's Resent-Message-ID: Message ID. Precedence Resent-Precedence: Receiver's Resent-To: Address Resent-cc: Resent-bcc: Resent-Exempt: _____________________________________________________ Original Date-Time Date: Message Heading Originator's From: Address Sender: Reply-To: Originator's Message-ID: Message ID. Precedence Precedence: Receiver's To: Address cc: bcc: Exempt: Security Classification: Classification Content Subject: Information Keywords: In-Reply-To: References: Encryption Encrypted: Field _____________________________________________________ Heading Comments Comments: Comments Field _____________________________________________________ Notes: (a) Fields not defined in RFC 822 are: Posted-Date, Posted-From, Post-ID, Postmaster, Relay-To, Do-Not-Relay-To, Resent-Precedence, Precedence, Resent-Exempt, Exempt, Classification. The order of sub- parts differs from RFC 822 Article 4.1 in that "source" is defined as: source = [trace] [resent] originator (b) Each sub-part of the heading begins with its corresponding date- time field. Fields pertaining to one sub-part may not be placed in another sub-part. With the exception of the date-time field which begins the sub-part, the order of fields within the sub-part is not defined. However the above order is recommended. (c) There may be none, one or more "readdressal message heading" sub- parts in the message heading. If there is more than one "readdressal message heading" the later ones precede the earlier ones. (d) "Relay-To" fields may be deleted by relaying hosts (Mail Transport Agent programs) when delivery has been made (or protected) by that host (MTA). (e) Relaying hosts (MTA's) will not make changes to the Message Heading within an mail system using basic message format. Gateways to non-basic message format mail systems, may translate header fields into other formats. However, if the other mail system's format is incompatible with the basic message format, the message should be quoted in the text of the other systems message. The same applies to incompatible messages being entered into an a basic message format mail system. (f) There may be only one "Date:", "From:", "Sender:" and "Message- ID:" field per original message. Relaying hosts may not add or change the "Message-ID" field. (g) "Exempt" and "Resent-Exempt" fields are optional user fields that may be used with collective addresses to indicate that the drafter (or user resending the message) does not want the message sent to one or more addressees in the collective address. Syntax is same as "To": exempt = "Exempt" ":" 1#address resent-exempt = "Resent-Exempt" ":" 1#address ----- Comments? Bill Wells, RMC, USNR-R wcwells@BERKELEY.ARPA ucbvax!wcwells Computing Services, 297 Evans Hall, University of California, Berkeley CA 94720