wales@ucla-locus.ARPA (Rich Wales) (02/27/86)
[NOTE: I had planned to send this message out several weeks ago, but a
mail problem at MC.LCS.MIT.EDU -- which apparently put the Header-People
mailing list out of commission for a while -- got in the way. Apologies
for any of the following information which is out of date. -- RBW]
Here's yet another chapter in the ongoing saga of "bad" and "semi-bad"
host names in mail. This message has to do with "non-domain-style" host
names (i.e., nicknames which appear in the NIC host name table, but
which do not contain periods). A subsequent message will discuss host
names which do not appear in the NIC table at all.
The following non-domain-style host names were observed in connection
with mail received by LOCUS.UCLA.EDU between 6 December 1985 and 15 Jan-
uary 1986.
Most of these names could be converted into valid (i.e., defined)
domain-style names by adding ".ARPA" to them. Those names which do not
occur with the ".ARPA" suffix in the NIC host name table are indicated
by asterisks.
Since non-domain-style host names are NEVER going to be listed in the
domain data base, I would strongly encourage the hosts listed below to
stop using them NOW and use the correct domain-style names instead.
************************************************************************
* I would also again urge the NIC to set a deadline for phasing *
* all non-domain-style names out of the host name table. (Note *
* that I am NOT advocating that ALL nicknames be removed -- only *
* that nicknames without periods be removed.) No matter what *
* anyone may say about transition to the domain data base -- and *
* no matter what anyone may say about only using a host's *
* "official" name -- the fact remains that as long as these names *
* appear in the table, people are going to continue to use them. *
************************************************************************
Also, I would suggest again to those hosts which are using the domain
data base that -- when they see a non-domain-style nickname in a mail
address -- they should try adding ".ARPA" to the name and look up the
result in the data base before giving up. This should be thought of as
a temporary "hack", to get around the unfortunate fact that it is likely
to be some time before non-domain-style nicknames have been utterly and
completely eradicated from our midst.
Before anyone asks: I am NOT going to try to send individual letters to
system adminstrators about this issue this time. The last time I did
this, I got very few responses. Most people seemed to simply ignore me
(witness the size of the lists below!). One person (who shall remain
nameless unless he chooses to make himself known) even said he planned
to keep on using his non-domain-style nickname, because he liked to make
waves! Predictably, said host is still on my list, and the wizard in-
volved is no doubt very proud of this fact. Sigh.
My apologies for any typos which might have made it into this list.
Also, my apologies if any hosts listed below have since fixed things.
Again, host names indicated below with (*) do not have ".ARPA" counter-
parts; an attempt (as described above) to make sense of these names by
tacking ".ARPA" onto them would fail.
(1) Non-domain-style host names used in return addresses of mail:
Name used Domain-style name
=================================
AERO (*) AEROSPACE.ARPA
AIDS-UNIX AIDS-UNIX.ARPA
BBNCCM BBNCCM.ARPA, CCM.BBN.COM
BBNCCP BBNCCP.ARPA
CIT-750 CIT-750.ARPA, CIT-750.CALTECH.EDU
FORD-WDL1 FORD-WDL1.ARPA
GLACIER (*) SU-GLACIER.ARPA, GLACIER.STANFORD.EDU
GSWD-VMS GSWD-VMS.ARPA
HPLABSD (*) HPLABS.ARPA
LASSPVAX LASSPVAX.ARPA, LASSPVAX.TN.CORNELL.EDU
MEDEA (*) MEDEA.BERKELEY.EDU
NRL-AIC NRL-AIC.ARPA
PARCVAX PARCVAX.ARPA, PARCVAX.XEROX.COM
SRI-SPAM SRI-SPAM.ARPA
SRI-UNIX SRI-UNIX.ARPA
SU-PSYCH SU-PSYCH.ARPA, PSYCH.STANFORD.EDU
TOR (*) NTA-VAX.ARPA
UMN-UCC-VA UMN-UCC-VA.ARPA
YALE-VENUS YALE-VENUS.ARPA
(2) Non-domain-style host names used in SMTP HELO commands:
Name used Address Domain-style name
===============================================
ALMSA-1 26.1.0.61 ALMSA-1.ARPA
ATHENA (*) 18.58.0.1 MIT-ATHENA.ARPA, ATHENA.MIT.EDU
BBNCCM 8.7.0.14 BBNCCM.ARPA, CCM.BBN.COM
BBNCCP 8.2.0.4 BBNCCP.ARPA
FORD-WDL1 128.5.32.1 FORD-WDL1.ARPA
GLACIER (*) 36.40.0.205 SU-GLACIER.ARPA, GLACIER.STANFORD.EDU
HPLABSD 192.5.58.10 HPLABS.ARPA
MEDEA (*) 128.32.0.15 UCBMEDEA.ARPA, MEDEA.BERKELEY.EDU
MEDIA-LAB 18.85.0.2 MEDIA-LAB.ARPA, MEDIA-LAB.MIT.EDU
MIT-EDDIE 18.62.0.6 MIT-EDDIE.ARPA, EDDIE.MIT.EDU
NRL-AIC 26.1.0.8 NRL-AIC.ARPA
NRL-CSS 192.5.17.112 NRL-CSS.ARPA
PREP (*) 128.52.22.14 MIT-PREP.ARPA, PREP.AI.MIT.EDU
SU-PSYCH 36.36.0.202 SU-PSYCH.ARPA, PSYCH.STANFORD.EDU
UCBARPA (*) 10.0.0.78 UCB-ARPA.ARPA, UCBARPA.BERKELEY.EDU
YALE (*) 10.2.0.9 YALE-GW.ARPA
--
Rich Wales // UCLA Computer Science Department // +1 213-825-5683
3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, California 90024 // USA
ARPA: wales@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU -or- wales@UCLA-LOCUS.ARPA
UUCP: ...!(ucbvax,ihnp4)!ucla-cs!walesjsq@im4u.UUCP (John Quarterman) (03/02/86)
A related problem:
Many people from IBM are convinced there is a host named IBM.ARPA on
the ARPA Internet. They hand out business cards with USER@IBM.ARPA on
them. Yet there is no such host. IBM-SJ.ARPA has an alias IBM (not
IBM.ARPA) which some mailers that still use the static host table will
interpret as IBM.ARPA. However, those of use who use nameservers find
no such name as IBM.ARPA, since non-domain-style nicknames haven't been
put in the nameserver databases. Explaining this to people from IBM is
difficult. Re-explaining it to local users every time they get one of
these IBM business cards is painful.
Perhaps IBM-SJ.ARPA could change its name to IBM.ARPA?
PS: Despite appearances, not every IBM employee has an account on
IBM-SJ.ARPA. That host is the gateway to IBM's VNET mail network.
Sometimes IBMers give out their addresses as USER%VNETHOST@IBM.ARPA.
--
John Quarterman, UUCP: {gatech,harvard,ihnp4,pyramid,seismo}!ut-sally!im4u!jsq
ARPA Internet and CSNET: jsq@im4u.UTEXAS.EDU, jsq@sally.UTEXAS.EDUwmartin@brl-smoke.UUCP (03/07/86)
In article <790@im4u.UUCP> jsq@im4u.UUCP (John Quarterman) writes: >Many people from IBM ... hand out business cards with USER@IBM.ARPA on them. For what it is worth, is not this business usage of the ARPANET in direct contradiction to the DDN guidelines for proper usage of the DDN network? If these were DoD people's business cards, giving their own addresses on the MILNET or ARPANET, that would be proper and OK. But for a business, which happens to have ARPA access, to use the arpa-style electronic address on its personnel's business cards seems to be in just about the same category as posting "for sale" ads and product ads, in that it encourages the usage of the network for business-related activities, not necessarily related to the gov't contracts or research efforts for which the ARPAnet is intended. If these addresses were only given out to gov't or academic users who were communicating with these IBM sites in a purchaser-vendor relationship, though, I would say the usage was valid and proper. Maybe it all depends who initiates the contact? Has this been specifically addressed and cleared by the DDN? Maybe, if so, it is all up-and-up and there is no problem. It just gives the appearance of conflict with what I have perceived as long-standing rules of conduct. Will Martin UUCP/USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA
avolio@decuac.UUCP (Frederick M. Avolio) (03/13/86)
In article <1611@brl-smoke.ARPA>, wmartin@brl-smoke.ARPA (Will Martin ) writes: > In article <790@im4u.UUCP> jsq@im4u.UUCP (John Quarterman) writes: > >Many people from IBM ... hand out business cards with USER@IBM.ARPA on them. > For what it is worth, is not this business usage of the ARPANET in direct > contradiction to the DDN guidelines for proper usage of the DDN network? Okay. What about domain-style addresses that look like ARPA addresses but may never touch the Arpanet? Is there a problem? Because, for example, user@decwrl.DEC.COM would go via the ARPANET from an ARPANET host, but would go via DEC's internal network from decuac. And even though we are not an ARPANET host, avolio@decuac.DEC.COM will get to me. And it may go via UUCP or ARPA or any number of other ways. And user@host.ATT.COM won't touch the arpanet from here as neither will user@host.UMD.EDU. What I am getting at is, with the implementation of domains across networks, including optional usage on the 'UUCP network,' the transport mechanism will not be indicated, so those IBM business cards could say "user@ibm.com" and, unless one knew the communication channels, no one should object to the use. Because, user@host.SUB2.SUB1.TOPDOMAIN may or may not cross the DDN network. -- Fred @ DEC Ultrix Applications Center UUCP: {decvax,seismo,cbosgd}!decuac!avolio INET: avolio@decuac.DEC.COM
jsq@im4u.UUCP (John Quarterman) (03/14/86)
In article <1611@brl-smoke.ARPA>, wmartin@brl-smoke.ARPA (Will Martin ) writes: > In article <790@im4u.UUCP> jsq@im4u.UUCP (John Quarterman) writes: > >Many people from IBM ... hand out business cards with USER@IBM.ARPA on them. > For what it is worth, is not this business usage of the ARPANET in direct > contradiction to the DDN guidelines for proper usage of the DDN network? IBM employees are certainly not alone in having Internet addresses on their business cards. The ones I've seen from IBM were given out in pursuit of research. I did not intend to malign IBM's business card practices by my posting. I'd just like for them to tell people an address which works. As someone else has pointed out, a domain address does not mean that a host is on the ARPANET or that mail to it will use the ARPANET at any point. Even the temporary and soon-to-be-obsolete .ARPA domain does not refer to the ARPANET: it refers to a certain administrative subset of the ARPA Internet. The Internet includes, but is not identical to, the ARPANET. The domain .ARPA does not even include all of the ARPANET (not sally.utexas.edu, for example) and it does include most of MILNET. Consider hosts in ATT.COM or OZ.AU, for examples (both real). -- John Quarterman, UUCP: {gatech,harvard,ihnp4,pyramid,seismo}!ut-sally!im4u!jsq ARPA Internet and CSNET: jsq@im4u.UTEXAS.EDU, jsq@sally.UTEXAS.EDU