mauney (11/23/82)
The following stems from a question in net.trivia about the origin of the word "posh," and giving what I believe to be an incorrect answer. I am putting this in net.nlang because I think it belongs here, and because I am hoping it will cause some discussion. It is at least as interesting a topic as the proper spelling of a certain two-letter preposition. (OK, Pablo, let's get things going!) ------------------------------------------------------------ The use of acronyms to coin new words is a relatively recent linguistic process. Acronymic derivations of words above a certain age (I forget how old) are suspicious. Thus, the following acronyms are probably incorrect: tip, for To Insure Promptness cop, for Constable On Patrol posh, for Port Out, Starboard Home (the preferred location of a stateroom on a trip from England to India) The American Heritage Dictionary gives the derivation of posh as "possibly from port out, starboard home." However, another book, Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins, also by the editors of the AHD, William and Mary Morris, says the steamship story is "charming, if highly improbable..." (Personally, I am not inclined to believe anything the Morrises say. their syndicated column, Words, Wit and Wisdom, show them to be unwise and half-witted about words. But that is the subject of a separate flame.) Posh was used in (British) underworld slang as early as 1839 to mean money. (from the Romany (Gypsy) word for half, as in 'posh-koorona', a half-crown.) John Ciardi, poet and word buff, believes posh, meaning swanky, derives from this slang use. Other possibilities exist; no one is certain. But the steamship story should have been torpedoed long ago. Jon Mauney ncsu!mauney
trb (11/23/82)
No acronym short forms of idioms? Come on. I don't know about in English, but other languages are filled with these. Ever see the the abbrevs INRI, SPQR, etc? In Hebrew, every ancient scholar worth his salt had an acronym nickname. Rambam (Rabbi Moses ben Maimon, or Maimonides to those of you who thought that everyone that old must have been Greek) and Rashi (whose real name I've forgotten) are the prime examples. They all, of course, had acronyms which started with 'R' for Rabbi. There are acronyms sprinkled liberally through Jewish scholarly writing. In the Passover Hagaddah (the book which contains the service read at the Passover feast) the names of ten plagues which God dumped on the Pharaoh's Egyptians while the Jews were enslaved are stated, and then, for some reason, a three-word acronym built from the initial letters of the names of the plagues is also mentioned (I assume to help you remember what they were). This acronym is pronounced as part of the service. I know that at least the Jews were very involved with numerology and other such linguistic games, I would assume that other cultures were too. I would find it surprising that someone would claim that words like "posh" were not abbreviations because such play wan't common in the olden days. One might say that maybe the abbrevs existed, but they didn't use them as words. If I had an abbrev like POSH, I wouldn't pronounce it P-O-S-H (at least not for long) and though I am not sure that I would have stretched its meaning into a general term for posh, I would claim that it was possible before I claimed that it wasn't. Andy Tannenbaum Bell Labs Whippany, NJ (201) 386-6491 (ATBLWNJ236)
mauney (11/24/82)
My statement regarding acronyms was perhaps insufficiently qualified. I should have said that acronyms becoming words has only recently become commonplace IN ENGLISH. I don't have any information about other languages, and other languages aren't relevant; although words are frequently borrowed, word-forming processes in, say, Hebrew are not likely to have much effect in another language, such as English. Furthermore, the use of abbreviations such as SPQR, and of acronyms for personal nicknames or in important social matters ( ICHTHUS is a good example from Christian history ) does not necessarily indicate that the same process was used to coin ordinary words. In any case, my argument about the historical lack of acronyms does not stem from my own opinion, but rather from that of etymologists, who have (presumably) studied patterns of word formation, and therefore know what was and was not common. Acronyms were not common. Posh may have been ahead of its time, but it's unlikely. Jon Mauney
davy (11/24/82)
#R:ncsu:-105700:pur-ee:12900005:000:293 pur-ee!davy Nov 23 22:37:00 1982 COP - Constable On Patrol ??? I always heard the story that they were called "coppers" because their uniforms have (had) copper buttons, and that "cop" was just a shortened version of this. This may not be true either, but I think it's a better story.... --Dave Curry pur-ee!davy