[net.nlang] Forwarded message from UCLA

config@trwspp.UUCP (06/06/83)

   This newsgroup may find this of interest.  You can send
a reply to Prof. Berry as shown in the Reply-To: field below.
UCLA, apparently, isn't in Usenet as yet.

------- Forwarded Message

From: ucla-vax!ucla-fs!dberry
Delivered: 3 Jun 1983 18:19:13 (Fri)
Full-name:      Dan Berry
Reply-to:       dberry@ucla-locus,sdcrdcf!ucla-vax!dberry,f.dberry
Subject:        help on linguistic reserch project


In U.S. English when one here's an an ununderstandable utterance,
he or she may say "That's Greek to me".  Some of us were wondering
what is said in other languages. Up to now we have identified the
following X,Y pairs such that in language X, the phrase is "That's
Y to me":
X					Y
-----------------------------------------------------------------
English, US Canada and UK		Greek
German, Germany				Japanese
Hebrew					Chinese
French					Hebrew
Spanish, Spain Chile			Chinese
Italian					Arabic
German, Switzerland			Chinese and Spanish
Hungarian				Chinese
Danish					Greek
Czech					Hungarian
English, UK and Australia		Double Dutch
Catalan					Russian and Polish
Portuguese, Rio				Greek
Portuguese, Bahia			Nago Chinese and Japanese
Farsi					Chinese
Russian					Chinese

We are looking for new entries for this table to make it as complete as
possible. In particular, we would like to have entries for X=Chinese,
Japanese, Greek, Polish, Dutch, Arabic if in fact they exist. The fact that
there is no such phrase in a language is also a significant fact.
Please send any new data about which you may know, including differences
from what I have listed. These differences may be national or regional,
so when you send an entry, indicate in ehich country or region the phrase
occurs.
Thank  You
Daniel Berry



------- End of Forwarded Message

urban@trwspp.UUCP (06/07/83)

In Esperanto, the language equivalent
for `It's Greek to me' is (logically enough) "Volapuk"
(the crufty international-language attempt that preceded
Esperanto).

levy@princeton.UUCP (06/12/83)

For X=Greek, Y=Chinese (i.e. the Greek say "It's Chinese to me")For X=Greek, Y=Chinese (i.e. the Greek say "It's Chinese to me")..

smb@mhb5b.UUCP (06/12/83)

I once saw a copy of a technical report from IBM Yorktown (I think it was
Yorktown; it was certainly IBM) comparing the difficulty of natural languages
based on just such statements.  I may even have a copy around, though I
haven't the foggiest idea where.

nather@utastro.UUCP (06/13/83)

O.K., three times at one newsreading is enough, I have to ask:

	What means "cruft" ...and what's its origin?

Is it a misspelling of "crud?"  Context suggests it's not very
complimentary.  Is it related to "kludge?"

fred@umcp-cs.UUCP (06/16/83)

A few years back I saw a semi-serious paper on just this subject written
by some folks at MIT. They decided to construct a partial ordering of
natural languages by their relative complexity by defining the language
B to be more complex than the language A if there exists in common
usage in A the phrase ``It's B to me.'', or something equivalent.
The result? There were no cycles. Chinese came out on top as the most
complex. According to the paper Chinese uses the phrase ``It's heavenly
script to me.''

This is all from memory. I'll see if I can track down a copy of the paper.