[net.nlang] Vowels, Tenses and Incoherent Mutter

grass@uiuccsb.UUCP (10/18/83)

#R:rocheste:-339200:uiuccsb:10500007:000:2120
uiuccsb!grass    Oct 17 10:40:00 1983


Slavic languages are a mixed bag, as far as verb treatment goes.  The 
south Slavic ones (Serbo-Croatian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Slovenian)
have retained a lot of the old Slavonic forms.. archaic in Serbo-croat,
active in Macedonian and Bulgarian..
These last two have all the intricacies of Czech with an additional
set of verb forms used especially in the past to distinguish between
what was actually WITNESSED vs. that which is known only on a second
hand basis.  This is in addition to the perfective/ imperfective
split.

I guess there is one small compensation... Macedonian and Bulgarian
have no case declensions for their nouns.  (Which is what is generally
the most difficult about learning a Slavic language).

Re: machine translation.. my favorite example of the problems in that
is the machine translation Russian to English of the phrase:
"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak"   It came out:
"The liquor is good, but the meat is poor".  

I have done professional translating in my time.  (Mostly various
Slavic languages), and it usually is a rather difficult process
involving at least 4 steps.  1) Reading the whole thing to get a 
meaning out of it.  2) A first pass translation from the original
with dictionary and whatever else.  3) A pass over the translation
without the original to get it into literate, smooth English
4) A verification pass comparing the translation against the
original to be sure the meaning has not been altered.

This is usually enough for a technical translation (e.g. articles
on PVC used as roofing materials from the original Czech (I've
actually done that one)),  but nowhere near enough for anything 
that is literary (e.g. papers on Orthodox mysticism as reflected
in certain Russian theological works) (another one I've done).
And if the translation will be published, there is more editing
to be done.

In general I am pessimistic about machine translation because
of the poor fit of semantics between any two given languages
and because I am not convinced anyone has a good enough model
of natural language syntax and semantics. (Especially semantics).