daemon@decwrl.UUCP (02/29/84)
From: akov68::boyajian
[This message is being posted to net.flame, where the quoted message below was
posted, and net.nlang, where my message that "js" was commenting on originally
appeared.]
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It is sad to have to read all these glorifications of ignorance ("I don't speak
any languages other than English, and I am proud of being an uncultured slob").
As a specific comment, it was said that the origin of "decimate" was "to take
the tenth part" while it is used in the sense of "wipe out", and therefore,
culture is bad, since you would use the word wrongly. The fact is, a little
knowledge is a dangerous thing. In this specific case, a little more knowledge
would elicit the fact that a not uncommon, and very severe form of punishment
for rebellious legions was to decimate them - kill every tenth soldier. This
"only" took every tenth soldier, but gave the ominous meaning to the word.
js
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Since I was the one that posted the message regarding "decimate" (as
part of an overall discussion about learning Latin), it behooves me to respond.
Quite frankly, you didn't understand a whit of what I was saying.
First of all, I never said "I don't speak any languages other than Eng-
lish, and I am proud of being an uncultured slob", or anything even remotely
like it. As a matter of fact I took French for 5-1/2 years in grade school, Span-
ish for three years in high school and two years in college, German for two years
in high school and two in college, and even a smidgin of Latin in junior high. I
*love* languages. My contention was, and still is, that the argument for learning
Latin as a way to learning new words in English (by knowing the Latin roots) was
a specious one. Learning Latin for the fun of it, or to be able to read ancient
Roman texts in their original language is certainly commendable.
Second of all, I fail to see how it logically follows that because the
word decimate is currently used differently from its original meaning that "cul-
ture is bad". Sure, I know that *you* don't believe that, but I don't see how you
managed to glean that piece of specious wisdom from what I said. Again, what I
was trying to illustrate by that example is that knowing the Latin root for
decimate will give you a *false* understanding of its current definition, rather
than a clearer one. (By the by, I am well aware of the Roman practice of deci-
mating the troops as a punishment. I studied Imperial Roman history in college.)
Thirdly, not as a response to your response to my article, but as a
flame of my own, I am rather sick and tired of people who insist on shoving
"culture" down other people's throats! (NB that I am saying this as a "cultured"
person, not an ignoramous [otherwise, how could I be using "nota bene"? 8-)].)
Personally, I find it perfectly acceptable for someone to not want to learn
Latin or Greek (besides, why are just Latin and Greek held in high esteem as
cultured languages, why not Aramaic or Chinse?). Through the marvels of trans-
lation, one can easily read the works of Romans (eg. Cicero) or Greeks (eg.
Herodotus) without having to resort to learning Latin and Greek.
1
To be sure, there are uses aplenty for Latin and Greek , but I hardly
find them to be a necessity for a "cultured" person. To insist that they are
is nothing but elitist snobbery.
--- jayembee
(Jerry Boyajian, DEC Maynard)
UUCP: (decvax!decwrl!rhea!akov68!boyajian)
ARPA: (decwrl!rhea!akov68!boyajian@Shasta)
1
If nothing else, knowing Latin and Greek will tell you that "octopi" is an
improper plural for "octopus" (which isn't even a Greek word, by the way).benson@dcdwest.UUCP (02/29/84)
I must concur with jayembee. Knowing the etymology of words is fun and occasionally will help you out of a tight spot. Most of the time, the meanings of words have changed over the years and the culture along with it. The ancient roots will often lead you away from the modern meaning. Consider 'consider', from the Latin considerare, lit. to observe the stars. The etymology does not lead one to the current sense of the word. Studying Latin or Greek (or Aramaic or Sanscrit or Swedish) is an end in itself. There are good writers, interesting ideas, and the intense fun of translation. To increase your vocabulary in English and improve your writing style, I would recommend reading good English authors with a good dictionary in hand. Peter Benson decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!benson
julian@deepthot.UUCP (Julian Davies) (03/01/84)
Yes, I vote for etymological awareness as fun. Anyone else like reading the dictionary? Of course, you cannot believe half of them.