robison@eosp1.UUCP (Tobias D. Robison) (09/21/84)
References: We are having a typical discussion of word origins that's worth generalizing a bit. Many people think they "know" origins of particular words because they have heard explanations that make logical sense. They assume: - this explanation is sensible - therefore it is correct. Usually, that reasoning is false. Why then, do so many people apply it? I think that most people have never stopped to think how one traces the origins of a word. Simply put, this is a historical process. One looks for (usually) datable writings in the target leanguage, and in related languages, that use the word or similar words. One must always ask whether the curents of history have allowed one datable instance to influence another. Examining influences from other langauges is an important antidote to the tendency to assume that words were derived by acronyms or wordplay. When you think you have the "original" use of a word, you must be reasonably sure that older uses of the word cannot also be found. My favorite example of misapplied wordplay -- many people "know" that the word "butterfly" is derived from "flutterby". However if you look it up in the Oxford English Dictionary, you will find that it is related to the Dutch Word for the same insect, "boterscheit" (spelling?), which refers to the fact that the insect's feces are the color of butter. The OED is a good source for word origins because, unique among almost all dictionaries, it lists actual uses of each word over the last 1000 years to show how their meanings derived. [A game to play -- try to find English words that have written references in the 10th century.] The New York Times, about 10 years ago, had a "reasonable meaning" contest for the meaning of "Okay". Writers came up with about 10 origins, all based on "commonsense". Not one quoted any historical data to suggest that their use of the word was the oldest. Parodying this style of logic, my wife Elaine suggested the following derivation of "Okay": In medieval Normandy, Monks concerned with loading boats at the docks would reassure their superiors when all of the materials were on the dock and ready to load, that is: "Au Quais". This expression (which sounds about the same as "okay") entered English via french-Creole speakers in New Orleans. - Toby Robison (not Robinson!) allegra!eosp1!robison or: decvax!ittvax!eosp1!robison or (emergency): princeton!eosp1!robison
crandell@ut-sally.UUCP (Jim Crandell) (09/24/84)
Incidentally, the common four-letter word meaning ``urine'', cited
recently in this discussion as an example of stigmatized Old English
usage, probably came into English from Latin. Its root form is one
of the few examples of onamatopoeia (sp?) in that language.
--
Jim Crandell, C. S. Dept., The University of Texas at Austin
{ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!crandellpsfales@ihuxq.UUCP (Peter Fales) (09/24/84)
> The New York Times, about 10 years ago, had a "reasonable meaning" > contest for the meaning of "Okay". Writers came up with about 10 > origins, all based on "commonsense". Not one quoted any > historical data to suggest that their use of the word was the > oldest. Parodying this style of logic, my wife Elaine suggested the > following derivation of "Okay": > > In medieval Normandy, Monks concerned with loading boats > at the docks would reassure their superiors when all of the > materials were on the dock and ready to load, that is: > "Au Quais". This expression (which sounds about the same as > "okay") entered English via french-Creole speakers in > New Orleans. According to my high school German teacher, the word OK comes from the name of an inspector in a VW plant, Otto K???, who wrote his initials on each car that passed inspection. Of course, I don't have any definitive references either. -- Peter Fales UUCP: ...ihnp4!iwlc7!psfales ...ihnp4!ihuxq!psfales Work: Bell Labs IW-1Z243 W: (312) 979-7784 H: (312) 393-6983 [ Send lawyers, guns, and money; Dad, get me out of this. ]
alan@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Alan Algustyniak) (09/26/84)
Peter Fales' amusing article on the origin of 'ok' reminds me of the origin of 'barbeque' as told to me by a Frenchman. A long time ago the Barbary pirates used to carry goats aboard their shps for food. When they ate on a beach they discovered an interesting way to cook one. They made a fire and a spit. They stuck the spit in the goat 'de barb a queue.' sdcrdcf!alan
gino@voder.UUCP (Gino Bloch) (09/26/84)
>> According to my high school German teacher, the word OK comes from >> the name of an inspector in a VW plant, Otto K???, who wrote his >> initials on each car that passed inspection. Of course, I don't have >> any definitive references either. >> -- >> Peter Fales Have you ever driven an 1850 VW? -- Gene E. Bloch (...!nsc!voder!gino)
nather@utastro.UUCP (Ed Nather) (09/27/84)
[] >Incidentally, the common four-letter word meaning ``urine'', cited >recently in this discussion as an example of stigmatized Old English >usage, probably came into English from Latin. Its root form is one >of the few examples of onamatopoeia (sp?) in that language. >-- > Jim Crandell, C. S. Dept., The University of Texas at Austin I thought the common three-letter word for the same action was embedded in onomatopoeia (sp!), which, I was told, means "He wet the bed." -- Ed Nather {allegra,ihnp4}!{ut-sally,noao}!utastro!nather Astronomy Dept., U. of Texas, Austin
steiny@scc.UUCP (Don Steiny) (09/27/84)
*** I learned in a linguistics class that the word "rooster" was invented in Victorian times. They thought the word "cock" was too dirty. They tried to change the name of "bulls" to "gentlemen cows," but that one didn't take. Talk about gentleman cow feces! -- scc!steiny Don Steiny - Personetics @ (408) 425-0382 109 Torrey Pine Terr. Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 ihnp4!pesnta -\ fortune!idsvax -> scc!steiny ucbvax!twg -/
biep@klipper.UUCP (Biep Jude Arnoux Durieux) (10/04/84)
I can't give any references either, but I've always been
told, that "OK" is a silly abreviation for "All Correct",
since the "a" is pronounced (almost) as "o", and the "c"
as "k".
Biep Durieux
{seismo|plilabs|decvax}!mcvax!vu44!tjalk!klipper!biepkfl@hoxna.UUCP (Kenton Lee) (10/14/84)
xxx According to something I read years ago, OK is short for "Old Kinderhook", the nickname of Martin Van Buren. He used "OK" alot during his term and it caught on in the US. -- Kenton Lee, Bell Labs - WB 1D302, x7178 wb3g!kfl or hoxna!kfl