[net.nlang] Origin of that strongest of words

aeb@turing.UUCP (10/03/84)

On the etymology of FUCK

Although people have suggested ancient etyma for, and with the
same meaning as, fuck
	[so e.g., Egyptian petcha 'to copulate with', or similar words
	 in Arabic, or the Celtic root *buc- 'a point, to pierce'
	 (Cf. Ir. bot, Mx. bwoit 'penis') which might be the origin of
	 Latin battuere 'to strike', futuere 'to sleep with'
		[Ref. P. Malvezin, Dictionnaire des racines celtiques, 1924]
	]
it seems that in the germanic languages this word acquired its present
meaning only relatively recently.
The basic meaning seems to have been something like 'to thrust, push'.
Of course it is possible that such a semantic change has occurred in
several languages independently.

It is clear that Eng. fuck is related to Dutch fokken 'to breed' and
most likely also to German ficken 'to fuck'. (But the vocalism in the G.
word is not clear.)
Let me trace the oldest attested meanings for the D. and G. words.

My Flemish - Flemish & French dictionary from 1717 gives:
	Fok	Fokzeil / Bril		('foresail' / 'spectacles')
	Fokkery	Queekery van hoenderen	('poultry breeding')
	Hy heeft al wel aangefokt	Il a deja une famille nombreuse

The MiddleDutch dictionary (Verdam) has:
	Focke	Klein zeil		('small sail')
	Focken	Een loopje nemen met iemand ('to pull a person's leg')
	Fockert	Oplichter(?)		('swindler')

Kiliaen (16th century) already gives the following meanings for focken:
	'to hoist the sails, to flee, to fit sth., to befit, to thrust,
	 to gather secretly'

In Frisian:
	fok	fokzeil / bril / driehoekig stuk land 'triangular area'
	fokke, fokje	fokken 'to breed'

In German:
	ficken 'to fuck' (since 16th century), 'to move quickly to and fro'
		in MHG: 'to rub'
		16th c.: vycken 'to hit with birch-rods'
		in OHG: mich vikchit 'I itch'

In Scandinavian:
	Sw. focka 'to throw out, to fire, to chase away'
	ESw dial. focka 'to throw, drive, push, punch, hit'
	Bohusl. focka, Nor. fukka, ODa. fukke, Jutl. focke 'to fuck'
	Nor. fik[l]a 'to stir violently, to fumble'
		[Ref: H. Celander, Orden fock, focka och deres slaektingar.
		Goeteborgs Hoegskolas Aarsskrift 31 (1925) 112-117.]

I disagree with etymologies connecting fuck with Da. fyge,
	OIc. fjuk 'snow storm', Greek puge 'the behind', MHD fochen 'to blow'.
		[Ref: J. de Vries, Nederlands Etym. Wdb.]

On the other hand I deem it quite likely that there is a connection
	with Lat. pugnus 'fist', pungo 'to prick, sting' (perf. pupugi),
	pugio 'dagger' so that the IE root would be *peug- .
-- 
      Andries Brouwer -- CWI, Amsterdam -- {philabs,decvax}!mcvax!aeb

ajf@pyuxa.UUCP (A Figura) (10/09/84)

Re: Origin of the F-word

W   W   H   H   OOOOO        TTTTT   H   H   EEEEE          FFFFF
W   W   H   H   0   0          T     H   H   E              F
W   W   HHHHH   O   O          T     HHHHH   EEEE           FFFF   *****
W W W   H   H   O   O          T     H   H   E              F
WWWWW   H   H   OOOOO          T     H   H   EEEEE          F


CCCCC   AAAAA   RRRRR   EEEEE   SSSSS           ???
C       A   A   R   R   E       S              ?  ??
C       AAAAA   RRRR    EEEE    SSSSS            ?
C       A   A   R  R    E           S
CCCCC   A   A   R   R   EEEEE   SSSSS            ?

Spare us please!

aeb@turing.UUCP (10/19/84)

-- NEUKEN (NOOKIE) --
I am too lazy to make an extensive study, but since there have
been several articles about the Dutch word 'neuken' and English
dialect words in the same style, even connecting these to Arabic,
let me at least show that these words belong to a good old
IndoEuropean root (*kneu- or more generally *ken- (or *gen-)).

A good start is the old English word  hnocc  'penis', and
this is the oldest word in this family I know of with a sexual
connotation.
But it is interesting to note that there is an extensive parallelism
in the semantic development between the words in the *ken- and those
in the *gen- family, and the latter also gently generated such general
words as gene, genus and jaunty genitals of kind kin.
[Note that IE *g becomes g in Latin and Greek and k in Germanic,
while IE *k becomes c in Latin, k in Greek and h in Germanic, where
usually the h disappears altogether.]

The basic meaning of these roots is 'to bend, to press together'.
In English one has neck and nook with -k- suffix (*knek-), nut with
-d- suffix (*knud-). Hnocc derives from *kneug-, but we also have
Celtic words derived from *kneuk- : OldIrish cnocc, OldBreton cnoch,
Welsh cnwch 'hill', cnuch 'joint, coitus'.

Words derived from *kneug- in Germanic:
Dutch has nok 'ridge, stud, cam' (German Nocken, Swedish nock, Danish nok)
	and nuk 'freak, whim' (G. Nuecke, Sw. nyck, Da. nykke) and neuken.
German and Austrian dialects have words like Nocke, Nokkerl 'little
	meat balls (in the soup)'.
Sw. has nucka 'old spinster'. Da. dialect has nykke 'to push, pinch, jerk'.
OldNorse: hnykkr 'jerk', hnykill 'tumour', hnuka 'to sit on one's heels',
	hnykkja 'to pull towards oneself', OSw. nykkja 'thrust'.
Icel. hnokinn 'bent', hnukr 'hill top', hnokki 'little iron hook'.
Shetl. nikk 'sudden pain', njukk 'push'.
OldEnglish: gehnycled 'bent', hnocc 'penis'.

The present discussion implies that the old English word didnt disappear
from the language but survives in various dialects (both Scotland and
Minnesota have been mentioned).
The conclusion must be that the verb was derived from the noun, and that
the noun got its meaning because of the bent nature of an erected penis.
-- 
      Andries Brouwer -- CWI, Amsterdam -- {philabs,decvax}!mcvax!aeb

al@mot.UUCP (Al Filipski) (10/22/84)

It's possible origin as a corruption of the English "firk"
is not to be discounted. This was a very common word in the 
11th to 17th centuries.  Meanings of "firk" include "to press
hard", "to move sharply", "to stroke", "to stir up", "to move
about briskly". the OED gives "Your soberest jades are firkers
in corners"--Gayton, 1634. Partridges "Slang Today and Yesterday"
gives "given to caressing women" for "firking".  The loss of the 
"r" is analogous to the loss of the "r" in "arse".

                           alan filipski
                           {allegra | ihnp4} ! sftig ! mot ! al

al@mot.UUCP (Al Filipski) (10/22/84)

Re: my previous message

Sorry about the punctuation error.  Its important to use apostrophe's
correctly. (:-)

mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) (10/23/84)

===============
It's possible origin as a corruption of the English "firk"
is not to be discounted. This was a very common word in the 
11th to 17th centuries.  Meanings of "firk" include "to press
hard", "to move sharply", "to stroke", "to stir up", "to move
about briskly". the OED gives "Your soberest jades are firkers
in corners"--Gayton, 1634. Partridges "Slang Today and Yesterday"
gives "given to caressing women" for "firking".  The loss of the 
"r" is analogous to the loss of the "r" in "arse".

                           alan filipski
===============
There is a Cheshire dialect word "to firkle" (spelling guessed),
which seems to relate to this.  It seems to mean search by stirring
around, or search erratically.  The context I heard it was on a
record by "Blaster Bates", an explosives expert, who was asked to
find unexploded dynamite in a coal pile.  He objected to firkling
around in the coal for it.

Perhaps, in context of this "debate", my contribution is
somewhat parectbatical.
-- 

Martin Taylor
{allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt
{uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsrgv!dciem!mmt

mike@erix.UUCP (Mike Williams) (10/26/84)

> The loss of the "r" is analogous to the loss of the "r" in "arse".
Note that in British English we havn't lost the "r" in arse. Nor have we
lost the Aaaaaaah in f*****ing :-)