gadfly@ihu1m.UUCP (Gadfly) (02/18/85)
--
How many times have you come across the great net misspelling
apology "(sp?)", as in Iran's "Iatola(sp?)"? What is going
through such a writer's mind? Does he think maybe we haven't
noticed that he doesn't know how to spell, and thus kindly points
out this fact? Or maybe he thinks the apology makes the misspelling
go away? Or maybe he wants to show that he cares about his spelling,
but not quite enough to do anything about it?
Look, you sniveling cowards--I don't care that you don't know
how to spell, but to flaunt your illiteracy with "(sp?)" is
really unacceptable groveling. You have to be a masochistic wimp
to be so proud of your ignorance, yet so scared of your
audience, that you emblazon all your imagined errors for public
ridicule. Why not take your best guess and be done with it,
ferchrissakes? I mean, you either care about good spelling
or you don't. If you care, you'll get it right; if you don't,
then stand up for your right to spell as you please. Your meaning
will probably be clear enough, and nobody's going to accuse you of
doing it wrong deliberately. And who knows--maybe you'll get lucky!
This snippet from E.B. White's reminiscing about William Strunk
in the introduction to their "Elements of Style" says it best:
"I remember a day in class when he leaned far forward,
in his characteristic pose--the pose of a man about
to impart a secret--and croaked, 'If you don't know
how to pronounce a word, say it loud! If you don't
know how to pronounce a word, say it loud!' This
comical piece of advice struck me as sound at the
time, and I still respect it. Why compound ignorance
with inaudibility? Why run and hide?"
--
*** ***
JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** *****
****** ****** 18 Feb 85 [30 Pluviose An CXCIII]
ken perlow ***** *****
(312)979-7188 ** ** ** **
..ihnp4!iwsl8!ken *** ***msb@lsuc.UUCP (Mark Brader) (02/21/85)
No, Ken, or Gadfly*, if I use "(sp?)" I'm preparing you for a jarring error. There are some words that a person can't simply look up, such as names of people. Things get especially difficult if the writer has only heard them and not seen them in print. "Gary Kasparroff(sp?)" is just a shorthand for "that name that I can't identify but which is something like Gary Kasparroff". Mark Brader *If you want to hide your identity, you'll have to remove the .signature... Oh yes, this is going to net.flame. Okay: you ass, why do you go around reposting things that have already been on the net before. You are so dumb, I'll bet it was even you who posted it the previous time. :-)
lazeldes@wlcrjs.UUCP (Leah A Zeldes) (02/22/85)
I agree with the orginal poster, "(sp?)" is wimpy, if only because it draws more attention to the misspelling than just misspelling it. It's perhaps slightly more excusable in the case of names, which you can't look up, but otherwise, if you don't know how to spell something, you should use a word you do know how to spell. "I don't have a dictionary handy" or "It's too much trouble to look it up for a short note" aren't valid excuses. We all understand about typographical errors, especially in a medium where it isn't convenient to check a paper copy, but sloppy spelling is...well, sloppy. And "(sp?)" just makes it sloppier. -- Leah A Zeldes ...ihnp4!wlcrjs!lazeldes
barmar@mit-eddie.UUCP (Barry Margolin) (02/22/85)
I consider myself a reasonably good speller. However, sometimes I am
not quite sure that I have spelled a word correctly, it just doesn't
look right. This can often happen with foreign words or names ("Iatola"
was used as an example in the original posting, as a misspelling of
"Ayatolla" (actually, I'm not sure if it is one "l" or two)). In such
cases I will often use "(sp?)".
Why do I do it? It isn't to flaunt my ignorance. On the contrary, it
is to indicate that I know that I may be mistaken. It is like beginning
a statement with "I'm not sure, but I think...". Another reason that I
do this is to (hopefully) prevent people from sending replies whose only
purpose is to inform me that I made a spelling mistake; they won't
bother since it is obvious that I know I may have made a mistake. In
some sense, I'm saying "Yes, I know how to spell, but I also know that
I'm not perfect."
Yes, I have heard of the dictionary. However, one is not always handy
when you are trying to write a quick note. Since I rarely misspell, I
don't think it is worth my while to go to extra effort to have one
handy. As I said, my biggest problem is with weird names, and the
dictionary is not likely to help me when I'm trying to remember whether
it is "Teri Garr", "Terri Gar", or "Terri Garr" (luckily I DO know that
the first name ends in "i", not "y").
[Boy, will I feel like a twit if I've made a spelling mistake in this
note.]
--
Barry Margolin
ARPA: barmar@MIT-Multics
UUCP: ..!genrad!mit-eddie!barmarchabot@amber.DEC (l s chabot) (02/22/85)
How can anyone consider herself to be a good speller if she can't spell a title (not a name) that was in major newspapers across the country for over a year. Yes, I'm speaking about "ayatollah". Get serious, folks! And, surprise! it's even in the Office Edition of The American Heritage Dictionary. I can't imagine the locations from which some of us post. I usually do such from work during morning coffee, and at work I have available to me the above- mentioned paperback, provided by the stock room here. If your company or school is not so generous, well, it's a mighty $5. It's pretty handy for other things than just usenet postings: it aids me in spelling program comments that others can read and in correcting spelling in any documents I write (sure, the latter is something I could run through a spelling checker program, but not the former --I don't want to be told "eludom" isn't a word, I know that). If I can't find a word I want, I delay posting until I can go home and check out the OED or ask a writer if I might borrow something at work. Surely the options of obtaining a cheap reliable reference for the workplace for quick lookups, and delaying posting until a more extensive reference book can be used, surely these options are available to almost all of us. What, you say, not worth the time? Ah, yes, well, perhaps your posting is also not worth the time to read, if it isn't worth an effort on your part. But the best part is, that by not including "(sp?)" in postings, you can save five to six characters! Less typing! Fewer of those tricky shifted keys! And Who knows, an imperceptible decrease in phone costs could result. Ah, yes, a contradiction: here I've suggested taking time to look up a word, and know I'm suggesting saving time by not typing six characters. Actually, I've lied--the line about taking time was a trick with the end of encouraging some of us to think before we post, to take that extra few moments and reflect on wording and topic and facts. I realize this is completely counter to the spirit of discussions taking place in many newsgroups, but then, this IS net.flame, yes? About cutting down on mail pointing out spelling errors: I've gotten four comments on my spelling--one public posting and three letters. I misspell words all the time here, sometimes not even on purpose. Besides, it always looks more like the poster is looking for a letter correcting her (why else the question?) (it's rhetorical?). Okay, you still want your little "(sp?)" ? Okay, but only if you're careful to remind us of your other faults. When you don't know it's really okay where to leave the preposition at, "(gr?)" follows. And for those other little grammatical questions. And how about, for those sticky issues of gender ambiguity, "(gn?)" . These flags could be handy for any little thing that you really don't want to check, and don't want people telling you what's correct; other proposals are "(bs?)" and, for those who enjoy posting articles to a variety of inappropriate newsgroups, "(wn?)". We can all think of other abbreviations that would be useful. And, keeping in the spirit and apparent intent of including "(sp?)" in a posting, I will say "Laugh here" L S Chabot UUCP: ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot ARPA: ...chabot%amber.DEC@decwrl.ARPA USFail: DEC, LMO4/H4, 150 Locke Drive, Marlborough, MA 01752
jay@cadre.UUCP (02/23/85)
>It's perhaps slightly more excusable in the case of names, which you can't >look up, but otherwise, if you don't know how to spell something, you should >use a word you do know how to spell. "I don't have a dictionary handy" or >"It's too much trouble to look it up for a short note" aren't valid excuses. Just a comment on the above remark. I, for one, have noticed that a large number of misspelled words are of the ordinary, vanilla type (eg., "flys", "recieve", "wierd", etc.), errors that are the result of years of wrong usage, and of which the writer may not even be conscious. Another type of common errors that I've observed is the wrong choice of words (eg., "principle" for "principal", "it's" for "its", "who's" for "whose", etc.). The dictionary may not come in useful in either case: in the former, because the author feels comfortable with his spelling, and in the latter, because the word of his choice anyway is correctly spelt. Of course, I do feel that, when in doubt, it's a good idea for the writer to spend some time and check the spelling of the word in question. (But how does one look up a word in the dictionary if one doesn't know its correct spelling in the first place? That is something I've always wondered about, when I hear such well-meant advice.) Jay Ramanathan -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jay Ramanathan, jay@cadre.ARPA Decision Systems Lab, University of Pittsburgh "Yes, but I see that even your own words miss the mark...." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (02/25/85)
> Just a comment on the above remark. I, for one, have noticed that a large > number of misspelled words are of the ordinary, vanilla type (eg., "flys", > "recieve", "wierd", etc.), errors that are the result of years of wrong > usage, and of which the writer may not even be conscious. Well then, you're not going to stick a (sp?) after it, are you? I would comment that such people are, in my book, illiterate. Along the same lines, I just saw a headline in the paper that used principal when principle was obviously what was meant. So disappointing. -- This is my opinion, I guess. Phil Ngai (408) 749-5720 UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil ARPA: amdcad!phil@decwrl.ARPA
muffy@lll-crg.ARPA (Muffy Barkocy) (03/07/85)
In article <338@cadre.ARPA> jay@cadre.ARPA (Jay Ramanathan) writes: >....... (But how does one look up >a word in the dictionary if one doesn't know its correct spelling in the >first place? That is something I've always wondered about, when I hear such >well-meant advice.) > >Jay Ramanathan >-- >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ how about looking up what you *think* is the spelling when you're not sure, and if you don't find it, either you have a lousy dictionary, or you're wrong. So, make sure you have a *good* dictionary. (discussion of this on net.books). Muffy