gam@amdahl.UUCP (G A Moffett) (04/14/85)
Does anyone have any more info about the origin of the word
'posh'? Most smaller dictionaries say 'origin unknown', but
this is what I've been able to dig up so far:
According to the Dictionary of American Slang, the claim is
that 'posh' is said to derive from 'port out starboard home',
referring to the preferred locaytion of a stateroom on a ship
going out to India and again on a ship coming home to England;
this claim was reported 1952. The earliest written use is in
1951 in the New Yorker. It's meaning is given as 'smart; chic;
expressive of good, or at least expensive, taste.'
Webster's New World Dictionary meekly suggests that 'posh' comes
from obsure British slang for a dandy, but it is uncertain.
My 1958 Funk and Wagnalls International does not even have this
word! (not surprising for relatively new slang, though).
Anyone out there with an OED or other etymological tools who can
help with this?
--
Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,sun}!amdahl!gammuffy@lll-crg.ARPA (Muffy Barkocy) (04/15/85)
I have read the "port out starboard home" explanation in at least one book,
but I don't have any other sources for this. Unfortunately, I do not
remember anything else about the book.
Muffysteven@boring.UUCP (04/18/85)
In article <1397@amdahl.UUCP> gam@amdahl.UUCP (G A Moffett) writes: > Most smaller dictionaries say 'origin unknown', but [...] according to the > Dictionary of American Slang, 'posh' is said to derive from 'port out > starboard home', referring to the preferred location of a stateroom on a > ship going out to India and again coming home to England; this claim was > reported 1952. The earliest written use is in 1951 in the New Yorker. It's > meaning is given as 'smart; chic; expressive of good, or at least expensive, > taste.' > > Webster's New World Dictionary meekly suggests that 'posh' comes from obsure > British slang for a dandy, but it is uncertain. > > My 1958 Funk and Wagnalls International does not even have this word! (not > surprising for relatively new slang, though). > > Anyone out there with an OED or other etymological tools who can help with > this? The OED supplement reports the first use as 1912 in Punch; they say 'origin obscure' but points to a 1897 Dictionary of slang that defines 'a posh' as 'a dandy'. Chambers Dictionary says "Popularly supposed to be from 'Port Out Starboard Home', the most desirable cabins when sailing to and from the East before the days of air-conditioning, but no evidence has been found to support this." My grandmother claims that porters used to chalk "P.O.S.H" on the bags of such travellers, and that's why it became used, but I can't tell you if she really saw this, or if it's just 'popular supposition'. Another word in (British) English with a similar popular etymology is the slang word for cigarettes 'fags' (maybe this should be rot13 for the US :-). This is popularly supposed to originate from a make of cigarettes that had "For A Good Smoke" on the packet. However, it is more likely from "fag-end" meaning the stump-end of anything, and then by analogy to "fag". Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam; steven@mcvax.uucp
chris@umcp-cs.UUCP (Chris Torek) (04/20/85)
I also read the "port out, starboard home" in a book, but I happen to
remember which book [I don't know why!]: it was one of the Three
Investigators mysteries, by Robert Arthur. This was the one with the
rhyming slang ("the bottle and stopper point the way" "the lady from
Bristol rides from a friend" "in the posh queen's Old Ned") ... I also
remember a harrowing scene with a houseboat, but for all the fragments
I remember, I've forgotten the title!
Sigh.
O well... does anyone know how reliable Arthur's etymology of "posh" was?
--
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 4251)
UUCP: {seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!chris
CSNet: chris@umcp-cs ARPA: chris@marylandmgh@hou5h.UUCP (Marcus Hand) (04/23/85)
My dictionary (Chambers 20th Century revised) too, can only offer Port Out Starboard Home (the most comfortable way to travel to and from the East from Britain) as the "purported" origin of posh. -- Marcus Hand (hou5h!mgh)
muffy@lll-crg.ARPA (Muffy Barkocy) (04/29/85)
In article <5043@umcp-cs.UUCP> chris@umcp-cs.UUCP (Chris Torek) writes: >I also read the "port out, starboard home" in a book, but I happen to >remember which book [I don't know why!]: it was one of the Three >Investigators mysteries, by Robert Arthur. This was the one with the >rhyming slang ("the bottle and stopper point the way" "the lady from >Bristol rides from a friend" "in the posh queen's Old Ned") ... I also >remember a harrowing scene with a houseboat, but for all the fragments >I remember, I've forgotten the title! > >Sigh. > >O well... does anyone know how reliable Arthur's etymology of "posh" was? >-- >In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 4251) >UUCP: {seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!chris >CSNet: chris@umcp-cs ARPA: chris@maryland Yes! This would be where I read it as well. The title is "The Mystery of the Dead Man's Riddle." Muffy
jpb@icdoc.UUCP (Jonathan Bowen) (04/30/85)
Oxford Paperback Dictionary entry: posh adj. (slang) very smart, luxurious. * The suggestion that this word is derived from the initials `port out, starboard home', referring to the more expensive side for accomodation on ships formerly travelling between England and India, is often put forward but lacks foundation. The reason for the preference of sides is, for thos who hav not realised it, to avoid the heat of the midday sun. -- Jonathan Bowen, Programming Research Group, Oxford University, England Tel +44-865-54141, Mail bowen@ox.prgv or bowen@xxvd or bowen@50250300 (JANET) Arpa bowen%ox.prgv@ucl-cs