kanner@tymix.UUCP (Herb Kanner) (04/16/85)
The recent flurry of articles on distinctions between UK and US use of "the" inspires me to recollect some vivid reactions to UK English that I had early in my seven-year sojurn there. When I commented to a Scottish friend about the "the" phenomenon, he pointed out an inverse: claimed that "Joe is in jail" would be said in Scotland as "Joe is in the jail"--(spelled gaol, of course). He also came up with another interesting one. Said that there were parts of Yorkshire where the word "while" was understood to mean "until." This tended to cause fatalities at RR crossings, e.g. "Do not cross while the lights are flashing." It was interesting to look for UK equivalents to common US phrases and slang words. "Stop on a dime" became "Stop on sixpence". "A dime a dozen" became "Ten a penny." The language was full of good epithets: nerd, twit, etc., but I tried many times to find a UK equivalent for the phrase "He's all wet" and it just does not seem to exist. I particularly enjoyed the various degrees of "go away": buzz off, piss off, and fuck off. There is also "sod off," but I am not sure just where it nests in the previous sequence. Getting around now to stronger language and obscene gestures (I think gestures come under net.nlang), the epithet "prick" is never applied to a male in the UK. The proper word is "cunt." This now introduces my obscene gesture anecdote. One morning I observed the (American) manager of all systems programming at International Computers Ltd. (Kidsgrove) arguing with a plant security guard. Some of these guards believed that their sole purpose in life was to keep us out of the nearby parking lot. This manager was planning to drive to the Bracknell site some 150 miles south that morning, but wanted to stop off first at his office. Frusrated with his problem with the guard, he gave the latter the "finger," and drove away. I made a point of seeing him the next day and explaining that if you are going to aim an obscene gesture at a Brit, you better use one he will understand. Take your right hand. Make a V for victory sign. Now, bend your forefinger and third finger slightly and turn your hand so that the back of your hand faces the recipient of the gesture. My final item is interesting because it is a difference in grammar rather than in vocabulary. The word "agree" can be used as a transitive verb in the UK. The first few times I heard it, I thought I was hearing jargon, akin to "progressing a project." Then, I saw the usage in books and newspapers and checked it in the OED. Examples are: "The committee is meeting to agree the language definition," "two chess players agreed a draw." Herb Kanner Tymnet, Inc. -- Herb Kanner Tymnet, Inc.
jeff@rtech.ARPA (Jeff Lichtman) (04/22/85)
> > When I commented to a Scottish friend about the "the" phenomenon, he > pointed out an inverse: claimed that "Joe is in jail" would be said in > Scotland as "Joe is in the jail"--(spelled gaol, of course). He also came > up with another interesting one. Said that there were parts of Yorkshire > where the word "while" was understood to mean "until." This tended to > cause fatalities at RR crossings, e.g. "Do not cross while the lights are > flashing." > > Herb Kanner > Tymnet, Inc. Another one like this is the word "yet". Here's what Fowler has to say about it: "'Yet' in its temporal sense may be ambiguous: its old sense of 'now as before', 'still' has lasted longer in Scotland and Ireland than in England. To a Scotsman or Irishman the natural meaning of 'Is it raining yet?' is 'Is it still raining?' To an Englishman it is 'Has it yet begun to rain?'" -- Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) aka Swazoo Koolak {amdahl, sun}!rtech!jeff {ucbvax, decvax}!mtxinu!rtech!jeff
mgh@hou5h.UUCP (Marcus Hand) (04/22/85)
" With refernce to slang and jargon and UK/USA equivalence: "prick" is never used to refer to a male. Oh, yes it is, we used to use it frequently. there is no equivalent of "he is all wet". Hmm, description of a person as being wet is fairly mild and has been around a long time. Recently it has been used to refer to the more liberal minded members of the conservative party (eg "Pinko" Prior, Ted Heath, Linda Shorter, Alec Buchanan, Peter Walker, Tim Sainsbury etc.) who are regarded by the Thatcherite power-wielders as being wishy-washy fibreless softies. Oh yes, "fanny" doesn't mean what you think it means in UK, so be careful (its much stronger and refers to a part of female anatomy). And "sod off" is stronger than "bugger off" which is stronger than "piss off" (substantially). So there. -- Marcus Hand (hou5h!mgh)
kay@flame.UUCP (Kay Dekker) (04/30/85)
In article <395@tymix.UUCP> kanner@tymix.UUCP (Herb Kanner) writes: >Getting around now to stronger language and obscene gestures (I think >gestures come under net.nlang), the epithet "prick" is never applied to a >male in the UK. The proper word is "cunt." Not so. "Prick" may be used in a fairly mild fashion, being rather stronger than "twit". "Cunt" is *always* used offensively. Kay. -- "Science is the best way of satisfying the curiosity of individuals at government expense." -- L A Artsimovich, Novy Mir I (1967) ... mcvax!ukc!ubu!flame!kay
dac1@ukc.UUCP (D.Caldwell) (05/03/85)
In reply to Herb Kanner, you mentioned equivalent UK and US phrases like "A dime a dozen"/"Ten a penny". Why do you assume to use 'became' as in the US phrase became the UK phrase? Unless you know for certain that the one originated before the other, it would be better to just say they are equivalent. As Marcus Hand said, describing people as "wet" or "a prick" both occur regularly here in Britain. Likewise "cunt"; and incidentally I would think that few British people exposed to such language do not know that "fanny" can be used to refer to the same part of human anatomy. I am sure that the relative strengths of sod/bugger/piss off depend more on the person saying them and the way in which he does so, than in anything inherent in the words. - David Caldwell, Canterbury, England.
brian@digi-g.UUCP (Merlyn Leroy) (05/03/85)
Someone (Norman Diamond) suggested I post the name of the British/American Dictionary that I have. I don't have it with me, but it is published by Passport books and the author's name is Moss. It has some interesting things, like "momentarily", which in the US means "in a short period of time", whereas in England it means "for a short period of time", although the English meaning is sometimes used here, e.g. "Hold the button down momentarily". Interesting book. Merlyn Leroy Rule 6: There is no rule 6