btc@hp-pcd.UUCP (btc) (04/10/85)
NPR's Morning Edition often uses BBC reports on overseas events. I have
noticed that British reprorters will say "Joe Blow was taken to
hospital" or "Joe Blow is expected to spend two weeks in hospital".
An American reporter would say "Joe Blow was taken to THE hospital" etc.
Why the difference?
Someone pointed out that we say "I'm going to church" - no the. I would
have assumed that we would use the THE since each of knows that our church
is THE church :-).
Bob Clark
Hewlett-Packard PCD
Corvallis, OR
{ucbvax!hplabs, harpo, ogcvax}!hp-pcd!btcbenson@dcdwest.UUCP (Peter Benson) (04/13/85)
Some American dialects also use expressions such as:
he graduated high school
which sounds similar to my ears to the
he was taken to hospital
phrasing. Perhaps, these are simply idiomatic constructions
and are not open to logical analysis.
--
_
Peter Benson | ITT Defense Communications Division
(619)578-3080 | 10060 Carroll Canyon Road
decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!benson | San Diego, CA 92131
ucbvax!sdcsvax!dcdwest!benson | rob@ptsfa.UUCP (Rob Bernardo) (04/13/85)
In article <7200005@hp-pcd.UUCP> btc@hp-pcd.UUCP (btc) writes: >NPR's Morning Edition often uses BBC reports on overseas events. I have >noticed that British reprorters will say "Joe Blow was taken to >hospital" or "Joe Blow is expected to spend two weeks in hospital". >An American reporter would say "Joe Blow was taken to THE hospital" etc. >Why the difference? > >Someone pointed out that we say "I'm going to church" - no the. I would >have assumed that we would use the THE since each of knows that our church >is THE church :-). The use of 'the' in such expressions in English is not semantically motivated, i.e. it is arbitrary. Consider: I have a cold. ) I have the flu. ) similar meaning but different form I have tetanus. ) -- Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell, San Francisco, California {ihnp4,ucbvax,cbosgd,decwrl,amd70,fortune,zehntel}!dual!ptsfa!rob _^__ ~/ \_.\ _ ~/ \_\ ~/ \_________~/ ~/ /\ /\ _/ \ / \ _/ \ _/ \ \ /
barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) (04/13/85)
Americans also say "I'm going to school" or "When I was in school" without using THE. Brits not only "go to hospital" but also "stay in hospital." Another interesting difference is the indirect object. "Give it me" is good British but poor American usage. --Lee Gold
toby@fritz.UUCP (Toby Gottfried) (04/15/85)
In article <> btc@hp-pcd.UUCP (Bob Clark) writes: >... British reprorters will say "Joe Blow was taken to >hospital". An American would say "Joe Blow was taken to THE hospital" etc. >Why the difference? > >Someone pointed out that we say "I'm going to church" - no the. I would >have assumed that we would use the THE since each of knows that our church >is THE church :-). > Americans also say "go to school". -- Toby Gottfried FileNet Corp {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!felix!toby Costa Mesa, CA
wcs@ho95b.UUCP (Bill Stewart) (04/16/85)
> Americans also say "I'm going to school" or "When I was in > school" without using THE. Brits not only "go to hospital" > but also "stay in hospital." Actually, we use "I'm going to school/church" to mean "I'm going to the school/church to attend classes/services"; "I'm going to THE school/church" is more likely to mean "I'm going to the school/church BUILDING".
werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) (04/16/85)
> Bob Clark wonders why Americans go to THE hospital whereas British
go to hospital.
Can't help you there, but to relate this story. I was once editing
the MPP (Master of Public Policy) thesis for the person who now runs the
Office of Women's Affairs, Government of Japan.
Her main trouble was with articles - leaving out THEs or putting
them in inappropriately. I was able to explain the rules with one
exception: Why some acronyms have a THE in front and others don't. For
several weeks I took the standard defense, "Well it doesn't sound right."
Then it hit me, if the acronym can be pronounced, it doesn't have a THE
(the IRC vs. MITI), if it can't be pronounced, it does.
Does this address the original question. Not really. At least in
my part of the US, I go to school, go to work, go home, but go to THE
hospital. I also go to THE store, THE movies, etc. Let me take the
standard defense, "That's the way that sounds right to me."
--
Craig Werner
!philabs!aecom!werner
What do you expect? Watermelons are out of season!bob@vaxwaller.UUCP (Bob Palin) (04/16/85)
> Another interesting difference is the indirect object. > "Give it me" is good British but poor American usage. > > --Lee Gold That certainly is not good British usage, it is probably a Northern usage but would not normally be used in the South. Bob Palin of Luton, Beds.
steven@boring.UUCP (04/18/85)
Re "He went to hospital" vs. "He went to the hospital": Someone wrote: > The use of 'the' in such expressions in English is not semantically > motivated, i.e. it is arbitrary. and someone else: > Perhaps, these are simply idiomatic constructions and are not open to > logical analysis. Actually, it's not completely arbitrary, and it is open to some analysis. It concerns the following nouns: chapel, church, market, college, school, hospital, court, prison, work, sea, bed. These nouns are used in English when they are visited or used for their primary purpose. Thus "she went to church to pray", but "she went to the church to look at the carvings". Apparently then, American English leaves 'hospital' out of the list (maybe others too: comments any of you Americans?) In contrast to the above list, a few very common words do take 'the': cathedral, office (as a place of work), cinema, theatre: "she is at the office" vs. "she is at work". Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam; steven@mcvax.uucp
adm@cbneb.UUCP (04/18/85)
I would use "I'm going to church" or "I'm going to the chuch" to mean two different things. The first would mean that I'm going to attend a worship service, to participate in some activity that involves a church building but has a significance beyong that building. A similar meaning is attached to "I'm going to school", which means "I'm going to participate in classes at school". The second would mean that I'm going to the church building for some purpose other than it's primary function (worship). Similarly, "I'm going to the school" carries the connotation that I'm probably going to the school building, but not for a class. Bill Brown cbneb!cwb
mjl@ukc.UUCP (M.J.Loudon) (04/19/85)
Remember the original "I have the flu". I always say "I have the flu", but if I was being very upmarket, I might say "I have influenza". Does the fact that "flu" is a contraction have any consistent effect in cases like this? Also, "I have polio", "I have liver disease", but "I have THE shakes", "I have THE lurgi", etc. In article <1377@aecom.UUCP> werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) writes: > > .... I go to school, go to work, go home, but go to THE >hospital. I also go to THE store, THE movies, etc. Let me take the >standard defense, "That's the way that sounds right to me." > I notice that in most of the cases where "the" is dropped, the noun which follows is almost always descriptive about where we are really going, implying something about our actions when we get there. For instance, in the morning I might say "I'm going to school", because I know I am going to get "school'ed", but if I had to go to the school out of ordinary school hours for some reason, the descriptive element disappears, and it becomes "I'm going to the school". Consider also "I'm going to work" versus "I'm going to the office", and "I'm going to bed" versus "I'm going to the bedroom". It seems that when the 'the' is dropped, a particular action is implied as a result. It is interesting that as well as a missing "the", there is a missing "to" in the phrase "I'm going home". Any comments? Mark J. Loudon -- University of Kent at Canterbury, UK
liz@tove.UUCP (Liz Allen) (04/22/85)
In addition to dropping the "the" in phrases such as "going to hospital", I noticed that the British also add a "the" in some phrases. The one that comes to mind now is something like "I will see you on THE Monday". (I seem to think that there are more examples of this kind of thing, but it's been almost two years since the last time I was in England.) Another thing I noticed which was related to the hospital context was that they say "I'm going to surgery" when we would say "I'm going to the doctor". -- Liz Allen U of Maryland ...!seismo!umcp-cs!liz liz@tove.ARPA "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all" -- 1 John 1:5
dac1@ukc.UUCP (D.Caldwell) (04/23/85)
"He was taken to hospital" does not necessarily mean THE hospital which might indicate foreknowledge of which particular hospital he might have been taken to, but could mean A hospital. Which particular article it is that is left out would depend on the context. I don't think it can be described as GOOD English to say, "Give it me.", merely acceptable and also only used in colloquial speech. - David Caldwell. "The mind, like a parachute, functions only when open."
ncg@ukc.UUCP (N.C.Gale) (04/26/85)
So the British all use 'the' in strange places (ie Britain), which is - good heavens - different from the American use of the same word. Remember, when you talk about 'the British', you are covering a fairly wide spectrum of speech habits. One example that springs to mind is the accent of Lancashire. There are many expressions and mannerisms peculiar to Lancastrians, one of which is to almost totally omit the word 'the' from their speech. Quite often it is replaced by something quite similar to a glottal stop. But I'm no authority, I live several hundred miles away, and only rarely hear the accent being spoken. Only forty miles, in London, is the homeland of the Cockney accent/slang. That is marginally more similar to the local Kentish accent. Is it surprising that thousands of miles separating two countries should yield the odd difference in the use of the article 'the'?
asz@snow.UUCP (Jerry Cornelius) (05/03/85)
In reply to Lee Gold
"Give it me" isn't often heard, preferable are
"Give me it" or "Give it to me"
--
"The State is a liar, a cheat, an embezzler and a murderer. Anarchy is the only
way to save ourselves from the greatest criminals of all time."
... mcvax!ukc!ubu!snow!aszdac1@ukc.UUCP (D.Caldwell) (05/03/85)
Who on earth says, "See you on THE Monday" ? - I've never heard it. - David Caldwell, Canterbury, England.
asz@snow.UUCP (Frank N Furter) (05/04/85)
> In addition to dropping the "the" in phrases such as "going to > hospital", I noticed that the British also add a "the" in some > phrases. The one that comes to mind now is something like "I will > see you on THE Monday". (I seem to think that there are more examples > of this kind of thing, but it's been almost two years since the last > time I was in England.) "on the Monday morning" would be used in a context such as "Are you coming in next week?" "Yes" "I'm on holiday Monday, so I'll see you on the Tuesday morning about that..." --Alex -- "The State is a liar, a cheat, an embezzler and a murderer. Anarchy is the only way to save ourselves from the greatest criminals of all time." ... mcvax!ukc!ubu!snow!asz