daa@mhuxj.UUCP (ANSEN) (06/14/85)
I just read that the word "Okay" stems from the Wolof word "wawkay", which means "by all means", or "certainly." The word was brought into American English by slaves brought over from West Africa. Does anybody know more about this? Does anybody know of any other possible sources of the use of "O.K." in English? Debra Ansen inhp4!mhuxj!daa
mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) (06/14/85)
> I just read that the word "Okay" stems from the > Wolof word "wawkay", which means "by all means", > or "certainly." The word was brought into American > English by slaves brought over from West Africa. > Does anybody know more about this? Does anybody > know of any other possible sources of the use > of "O.K." in English? > > Debra Ansen I have heard that O.K. comes from the Dutch Oll Korrekt, which means, well, O.K. and came to America with Northeast Dutch settlers. Marcel Simon
macrakis@harvard.ARPA (06/15/85)
The etymology of `OK' has been much discussed but, as far as I know, never resolved to general satisfaction. It is fairly easy to come up with speculations for the origins of words; a different matter entirely to substantiate them. It is especially hard for non-literary words since they get into the permanent record (writing) much later after their introduction into use than do literary words and since there are often no generally accepted standards for their use.
ccrrick@ucdavis.UUCP (Rick Heli) (06/15/85)
I was under the impression that etymologists had pretty much given up on this one, but that there was one suggestion that it stemmed from "Old Kinderhook", a buzz word of Martin van Buren's presidential campaign. -- --rick heli (... ucbvax!ucdavis!groucho!ccrrick)
mac@uvacs.UUCP (Alex Colvin) (06/16/85)
> I just read that the word "Okay" stems from the > Wolof word "wawkay", which means "by all means", Yes, folks, it's time for our annual discussion of the origins of "O.K.".
gam@amdahl.UUCP (G A Moffett) (06/16/85)
In article <280@mhuxj.UUCP> daa@mhuxj.UUCP (ANSEN) writes: >I just read that the word "Okay" stems from the >Wolof word "wawkay", which means "by all means", >or "certainly." The word was brought into American >English by slaves brought over from West Africa. >Does anybody know more about this? Does anybody >know of any other possible sources of the use >of "O.K." in English? > >Debra Ansen >inhp4!mhuxj!daa Completely false, just as all the other explanations of "OK" coming from some foriegn place. It is an authentic American invention, from a kind of ``cutesy'' slang popular in the 1920's. (I would quote you my Steward Berg Flexner books right now but I can't find them). -- Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,cbosgd,sun}!amdahl!gam
steiny@idsvax.UUCP (Don Steiny) (06/16/85)
> > In article <280@mhuxj.UUCP> daa@mhuxj.UUCP (ANSEN) writes: > >I just read that the word "Okay" stems from the > >Wolof word "wawkay", which means "by all means", > >or "certainly." The word was brought into American > >English by slaves brought over from West Africa. > >Does anybody know more about this? Does anybody > >know of any other possible sources of the use > >of "O.K." in English? > > > >Debra Ansen > >inhp4!mhuxj!daa > > Completely false, just as all the other explanations of "OK" coming > from some foriegn place. It is an authentic American invention, > from a kind of ``cutesy'' slang popular in the 1920's. (I would quote > you my Steward Berg Flexner books right now but I can't find them). > -- > Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,cbosgd,sun}!amdahl!gam From American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: "O.K., OK, Okay" - Probably popularized by a slogan of the O.K. club, the Democratic party's political club of 1840; for *Old Kinderhook*, the nickname of president Martin Van Buren, who was born in *Kinderhook*, New York; but previously attested to in the 1830's as a modish slang abbreviation of favorable but uncertain meaning, possibly connected with another such abbreviation, *DK*, for "don't know." pesnta!idsvax!steiny Don Steiny - Computational Linguistics 109 Torrey Pine Terr. Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 (408) 425-0832
dmt@Glacier.ARPA (Mike Thornburg) (06/17/85)
> I just read that the word "Okay" stems from the > Wolof word "wawkay", which means "by all means", > or "certainly." The word was brought into American > English by slaves brought over from West Africa. > Does anybody know more about this? Does anybody > know of any other possible sources of the use > of "O.K." in English? > > Debra Ansen > inhp4!mhuxj!daa All I know about this comes from the book "Our Marvelous Native Tongue," by Robert Claiborne (Times Books, New York; 1983). In chapter 9 (page 205 in my paperback copy) he states: Easily the prize Africanism in American English, whence it has passed into a dozen tongues around the world, is our omnipresent "O.K." For years, lexicographers grappled with this strange term, evolving etymologies that were more ingenious than scholarly. It was termed an abbreviation of the semiliterate expression "oll korrect," slanderously ascribed to President Andrew Jackson, or of "Old Kinderhook," the supposed nickname of another American president, Martin Van Buren (from his birthplace, a Dutch settlement on the Hudson). Eventually, more thoughtful scholars established that "O.K." and various similar terms had been used as far back as the American Revolution--long before anyone had heard of either Jackson or Van Buren. And its source was unquestionably one of various West African expressions such as o-ke or waw-ke, meaning O.K. As this book is written for a popular audience, Mr. Claiborne does not include references to the scholarly literature for the specific term "O.K." However, he does mention David Dalby's essay in Thomas Kochman, ed., "Rappin' and Stylin' Out" (U. of Illinois, 1972); and Dillard, "All- American English" (Random House, 1975) and "Black English" (Random House, 1972) as sources for information on Africanisms in American English. I have not had a chance to consult any of these references myself, so I do not know if they contain anything germane to this discussion, but I am passing their names on in case anyone else is interested in reading them. Mike Thornburg
wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly) (06/17/85)
In article <280@mhuxj.UUCP> daa@mhuxj.UUCP (ANSEN) writes: >I just read that the word "Okay" stems from the >Wolof word "wawkay", which means "by all means", >or "certainly." The word was brought into American >English by slaves brought over from West Africa. >Does anybody know more about this? Does anybody >know of any other possible sources of the use >of "O.K." in English? From Webster's New World Dictionary, 2nd College Edition: ... [orig. U.S. colloq.: first known use (March 23, 1839) by C. G. Greene, editor, in the Boston Morning Post, as if abbrev. for "oll korrect," facetious misspelling of all correct ...: popularized by use in name of Democratic O. K. Club (1840), in allusion to Old Kinderhook, native village of Martin Van Buren, whom the Club supported for a 2d term] ... I also seem to recall reading somewhere when I was a child that one source thought it had originated somehow with an American Indian tribe ... -- Cheers, Bill Ingogly
lele@brand.UUCP (Surendra Lele) (06/18/85)
Derivation of O.K. is discussed in some detail in the book 'Our Marvelous Native Tounge' by Robert Hilburn. According to the book O.K. came from African languages
colonel@gloria.UUCP (Col. G. L. Sicherman) (06/19/85)
> I just read that the word "Okay" stems from the Wolof word "wawkay", > which means "by all means", or "certainly." The word was brought into > American English by slaves brought over from West Africa. Does anybody > know more about this? Does anybody know of any other possible sources > of the use of "O.K." in English? > > Debra Ansen Before we revive this futile discussion, tell us: Why do you want to know? -- Col. G. L. Sicherman ...{rocksvax|decvax}!sunybcs!colonel
michael@brueer.UUCP (Michael Fourman) (06/19/85)
In article <280@mhuxj.UUCP> daa@mhuxj.UUCP writes: >I just read that the word "Okay" stems from the >Wolof word "wawkay", which means "by all means", >or "certainly." The word was brought into American >English by slaves brought over from West Africa. >Does anybody know more about this? Does anybody >know of any other possible sources of the use >of "O.K." in English? > >Debra Ansen >inhp4!mhuxj!daa The story they tell here is that it dates from WWII radio slang for "Orl Korrect". Of similar vintage (and still current here) is "U.S." meaning terminally non-functioning (as in "this terminal is U.S., I need a new one). This is said to derive from the label of origin. (Please don't take this personally over there. We love y'all - well, most of you are probably O.K. anyway :-)) mike
scifi@ukc.UUCP (I.P.Gordon) (06/20/85)
I heard that 'U.S.' derives from the word UnServiceable, meaning unfit for service. Ian Gordon (G6ENU) So Long And Thanks For All The Wallabies
drg@rlvd.UUCP (Duncan R. Gibson) (06/21/85)
>Of similar vintage (and still current here) is "U.S." meaning terminally >non-functioning (as in "this terminal is U.S., I need a new one). This >is said to derive from the label of origin. I always thought U/S derived from UnServicable!
gjerawlins@watdaisy.UUCP (Gregory J.E. Rawlins) (06/24/85)
In article <8694@Glacier.ARPA> dmt@Glacier.ARPA (Mike Thornburg) writes: >> I just read that the word "Okay" stems from the >> Wolof word "wawkay", which means "by all means", >> or "certainly." The word was brought into American >> English by slaves brought over from West Africa. >> Does anybody know more about this? Does anybody >> know of any other possible sources of the use >> of "O.K." in English? >> >> Debra Ansen >> inhp4!mhuxj!daa > >All I know about this comes from the book "Our Marvelous Native Tongue," >by Robert Claiborne (Times Books, New York; 1983). In chapter 9 >(page 205 in my paperback copy) he states: > > Easily the prize Africanism in American English, whence > it has passed into a dozen tongues around the world, is our > omnipresent "O.K." For years, lexicographers grappled with this >[....] The problem with words that enter the language orally rather than through literature is that the etymologist is sometimes faced with an embarrassment of riches of possible explanations for how the word entered the language. This particular book (and this particular word) was reviewed in "Verbatim" - the language quarterly (vol 11 no 3 winter 1985) by Philip Howard (pg 22) from which i quote: "[....] consider the etymology of O.K. I can see that it is more romantic to suppose that it is a word from the West African language, Wolof, brought into the southern states of America by slaves. But to state unequivocally: 'Its [i.e. O.K.'s] source was unquestionably one of various West African expressions such as o-ke or waw-ke' is to go too far. The serious historian and scholar of language should indicate that there is no form of acceptable documentation to support the wild conjecture. All probability points to the jocular alteration 'orl korrect' as the origin." I should point out that the review was on the whole positive in that Mr. Howard thought Mr. Claiborne was "an enthusiast" etc. but "He is a journalist, not an academic [...]". While i agree with Mr. Howard when he says that "[...] to state unequivocally [....] is to go too far" i find Mr. Claiborne's explanation quite captivating (the resemblance between 'o-ke' and 'O.K.'seems rather strong and the derivation is certainly plausible) and so i submit that even if no "acceptable documentation" (whatever that is) can be found to support this "wild conjecture" (using an adjective like that is straight out of Thouless's "Straight and Crooked Thinking"!) that it be accepted as yet another _possible_ derivation of O.K. Greg. -- Gregory J.E. Rawlins, Department of Computer Science, U. Waterloo {allegra|clyde|linus|inhp4|decvax}!watmath!watdaisy!gjerawlins
msb@lsuc.UUCP (Mark Brader) (06/29/85)
Let me see how much I can chop down the background... about 30 lines of included text follow. The "|" at left is so that those with rn 4.3 can skip all the included matter including my interpolated remarks (those with "|" only). | Debra Ansen (mhuxj!daa) started this: | | > I just read that the word "Okay" stems from the Wolof word "wawkay"... | > ... brought into American English by slaves brought over from West Africa. | | Mike Thornburg (dmt@Glacier.ARPA) quoted Robert Claiborne's book "Our | Marvelous Native Tongue" (Times Books, NY, 1983): | | > Easily the prize Africanism in American English, WHENCE IT HAS PASSED | > INTO A DOZEN TONGUES AROUND THE WORLD, is our omnipresent "O.K." | (emphasis mine - msb) | | But Gregory Rawlins (watdaisy!gjerawlins) quoted a review from the language | quarterly Verbatim (winter 1985), which, while favorable to the book, noted | that Claiborne "... is a journalist, not an academic ..." and and also said: | | > ... I can see that it is more romantic to suppose that it is a word from | > the West African language, Wolof, ... But to state [this] unequivocally | > ... is to go too far. The serious historian and scholar of language should | > indicate that there is no form of acceptable documentation to support the | > wild conjecture. | | Gregory then commented: | | > ... (the resemblance between 'o-ke' and 'O.K.'seems rather strong and the | > derivation is certainly plausible) and so I submit that even if no | > "acceptable documentation" (whatever that is) can be found to support this | > "wild conjecture" that it be accepted as yet another _possible_ derivation | > of O.K. Right, my turn (Mark Brader - lsuc!msb): The resemblance certainly is strong, but if the magazine reviewer (who is presumably more competent at all this than any of us) says there is a total lack of documentation, that likely means that Wolof is not a language in which there is a lot of ancient writing available. And that means there's nothing to show that Wolof didn't get the word FROM English. Considering the extent to which English words -- including "O.K.", as noted in the emphasis above -- have been exported across the world generally, it seems much more plausible to me that "O.K." originated in English and traveled TO Africa with the slavers. (I kind of like the "Oll Korrect" theory, myself.) Mark Brader
mgh@mtunh.UUCP (Marcus Hand) (07/02/85)
Actually the term U.S. (or more properly U/S) to denote something that is not working is an abbreviation of UnServiceable from old (WWII ?) army parlance. -- Marcus Hand (mtunh!mgh)
cgeiger@ut-ngp.UTEXAS (charles s. geiger) (07/05/85)
Forgive me if this has already been said, but I just read in the newspaper a couple of days ago that O.K. came from the campaign slogan of some ancient president (Martin Van Buren, or somebody like that), whose nickname was Old Kinderhook (or something like that). Please accept my apologies for not being very specific.