jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (09/19/85)
> What we seem to need is a word with similar origins as "guy": i.e. a > short, one-syllable, slightly old-fashioned woman's name. "Guy" didn't always mean a casual term for 'man'. It comes originally from the British custom of making dummies ("guys") to use in hanging Guy Fawkes in effigy on Guy Fawkes Day. Boys raised money for fireworks and such by putting their "guys" out on street corners and soliciting donations ("penny for the guy?"). (If I'm wrong on the details here, someone with British experience please come to my rescue) To refer to someone as a guy was somehwat derogatory at one time. I recall seeing a usage in "Little Women", in the scene where Meg is staying with wealthy friends who dress her all up for a party. An older gentleman sees her and comments that "now they've made an awful guy of her". So it wasn't necessarily sex-specific in that case. I'd be interested in other references folks are familiar with. -- jcpatilla "At night, the ice weasels come."
spp@ucbvax.ARPA (Stephen P Pope) (09/20/85)
I on occasion use the word "guys" when addressing a group
of either, or mixed, sex and nobody has ever taken offense.
I further propose that "they" and "their" are acceptable,
although somewhat illiterate sounding, neuter forms for
he/she and his/her.
-steve
P.S. If anybody agrees or disagrees I'd like to hear from them.mac@uvacs.UUCP (Alex Colvin) (09/26/85)
> I further propose that "they" and "their" are acceptable, > although somewhat illiterate sounding, neuter forms for > he/she and his/her. > P.S. If anybody agrees or disagrees I'd like to hear from them. Please! Not this debate again!
dnc@dartvax.UUCP (David Crespo) (09/29/85)
> > What we seem to need is a word with similar origins as "guy": i.e. a > > short, one-syllable, slightly old-fashioned woman's name. > > "Guy" didn't always mean a casual term for 'man'. It comes originally > from the British custom of making dummies ("guys") to use in hanging Guy > Fawkes in effigy on Guy Fawkes Day. Boys raised money for fireworks and such > by putting their "guys" out on street corners and soliciting donations > ("penny for the guy?"). (If I'm wrong on the details here, someone with British > experience please come to my rescue) To refer to someone as a guy was somehwat > derogatory at one time. I recall seeing a usage in "Little Women", in the > scene where Meg is staying with wealthy friends who dress her all up for a > party. An older gentleman sees her and comments that "now they've made an > awful guy of her". So it wasn't necessarily sex-specific in that case. I'd > be interested in other references folks are familiar with. > > -- > jcpatilla > > "At night, the ice weasels come." *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** .... ...which reminds me, now that we are on the subject of word-origins, anyone out there up on the origin of erotic terms, such as... well I leave that up to you. Can anyone say if there is a sexist bias in them? As Wittgenstein said: meaning is usage (roughly, as I misquote the great philosopher). I very much enjoyed jcp's derivation of 'guy', though I think it also owes a lot to being similar to 'girl' and 'gal' (alliteratively, n'est-ce-pas?). calling a man(boy) a girl can be very insulting, so I would guess (yes) that guy would do the same of a ...(ahem) she-creature (if you will). But, in certain contexts THIS IS NOT SO. Note that in the "Little Women" quote, the usage depended somewhat on "guys" being "guys". the remark might also have been made hurtfully. Lastly: "And you knew who you were then, Girls were girls and Men were Men! (CAPS THE EDITOR'S!) keep the peace...dnc Mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again..."