colonel@sunybcs.UUCP (Col. G. L. Sicherman) (12/05/85)
> When visiting cousins in Canada a few years ago, I got called on referring > to myself as an American as though they were not. My solution was not to > call myself a "Unitedstatesian," rather a "US American." Simple, and not too > difficult to pronounce either! Scylla: Remember, Canadians are Americans too! Charybdis: Please don't call us "Americans!" -- Col. G. L. Sicherman UU: ...{rocksvax|decvax}!sunybcs!colonel CS: colonel@buffalo-cs BI: csdsicher@sunyabva
rgh@inmet.UUCP (12/07/85)
It is an act of simple courtesy to refer to people in the way they
wish to be referred to. Citizens of the United States of America
refer to themselves, and to each other, as "Americans". "America"
means, in the USA, the USA, and not "the Americas", or "the New
World" or "the Western Hemisphere".
I gather that the objection to allowing us to refer to ourselves as
"Americans" is that the usage is felt to imply some imperial attitude
toward the rest of North and South (and Central) America. That is not
the intent: even we anti-imperialists refer to ourselves as Americans.
Similarly, in this sort of conversation:
Q: Where are you from?
A: America.
Q: You mean, the United States?
I trust the intent is not to be insulting or patronizing or
pedagogic or simply anti-American, but it sure feels like that
after the tenth time. This dialogue implies that Q thinks that a Spaniard
might reply "Europe" or "Eurasia" rather than "Spain", or that a
Canadian or Brazilian might reply "America" rather than "Canada"
or "Brazil" -- it's really hard for me to believe that Q really
needs to ask the disambiguating question.
Note that the Brazilian might legitimately reply "the United States".
It seems like people who can keep straight which country is "the
United States" could handle the ambiguity of "America".
Randy Hudson {ihnp4,ima}!inmet!rghmsb@lsuc.UUCP (Mark Brader) (12/14/85)
Randy Hudson (rgh@inmet.UUCP) writes: > It is an act of simple courtesy to refer to people in the way they > wish to be referred to. Citizens of the United States of America > refer to themselves, and to each other, as "Americans". "America" > means, in the USA, the USA ... I quite agree. However... > Similarly, in this sort of conversation: > Q: Where are you from? > A: America. > Q: You mean, the United States? > I trust the intent is not to be insulting or patronizing or > pedagogic or simply anti-American, but it sure feels like that > after the tenth time. This dialogue implies that Q thinks that a Spaniard > might reply "Europe" or "Eurasia" rather than "Spain", or that a > Canadian or Brazilian might reply "America" rather than "Canada" > or "Brazil" -- it's really hard for me to believe that Q really > needs to ask the disambiguating question. According to Paul Theroux (in "The Old Patagonian Express"*), when he traveled in South America he found that there, "America" meant "South America". He was quite puzzled at first when he met someone who had traveled "all around America" and had not been to New York, Los Angeles, and so on. (The other fellow was puzzled by Theroux asking about all those places in the United States when he had said "America"...) So if a Brazilian, or a Paraguayan or a Surinamian, figured you might not know where his country was, they *might* reply with "America". (Of course, if the reply is in perfect English, this interpretation is pretty strained. But what if it isn't?) But then, in Britain, I observe that "America" may mean "the United States" or it may mean "North America". The latter usage is mostly from people who don't really realize that Canada is a different country. (For the benefit of any such people who are reading this: Canada is a different country. So there.) Here in Canada, very few people ever say "America", though we call people from the USA "Americans" because that's what they call themselves. "America" is practically a nonword here. What all of this leads to is another interpretation of the above Q&A. When I go to Britain I don't ask for the elevator, but the lift; I don't ask for the subway (which means something else), but the underground. It's a courtesy and it should also make me easier to understand. Now Q is thinking that A is trying to do this, and Q doesn't know what A thinks Q thinks "America" means. So Q asks for clarification. Remember, such a conversation would only occur between people who are just meeting, and it would thus NOT be obvious if either one was trying to use the other's vocabulary. Of course, maybe Randy thinks it's unimaginable that an American would adopt the courtesy of using another person's vocabulary. Come to think of it, he may have a point there! :-) Mark Brader, Toronto, Canada *I may have the title slightly wrong. "I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pedantic and that's just as good." -- D Gary Grady (<870@ecsvax.UUCP> in net.followup)