solomon@aero.ARPA (Steve Solomon) (12/19/85)
I am interested in idiomatic expressions in English and other languages
that uses proper nouns, from linguistic and cultural perspectives. The
classic English examples,
(1) It's Greek to me.
and the VP
(2) To carry coals to Newcastle
convey exotic language (a sort of meta-semantic variable) and
superfluousness, respectively.
German data: (Gloss)
(3) Es kommt mir Spanisch vor. (1) It's Spanish to me.
and
(4) Eulen nach Athen tragen (2) To carry owls to Athens
The burning question is, in the case of (1) and (3), what constitutes
the notion of 'exotic' in different languages?
Hebrew for (1) is 'Chinese' and I suspect many languages also use the
metaphor of 'Chinese' to express some incomprehensible vernacular within
a language or generic foreign language.
Two variants of (3) are
(5) Es kommt mir vor wie Spanische Doerfer.
(It's like Spanish villages to me)
and
(6) Es kommt mir vor wie Boehmische Doerfer. (Bohemian villages)
What are some other data in other languages? Speakers of Scandinavian
(incl. Finnish) African, and Asian languages, let's hear your input!
(It wouldn't surprise me if Russian for (1) were "It's Russian to me"
since that part of the world is "an enigma wrapped in a puzzle shrouded
behind a mystery." :-) But it's probably Armenian instead.)
On a related note, what are the places thought of as neutrally exotic,
i.e. without a meaning of punishment (Methinks Siberia is universal) or
boredom if one were sent there?
English (7) ?(Outer) Mongolia
(8) *(Northern) Slobovia
Hebrew (9) Honolulu
(7) comes close, and seems to be simply far removed, but does convey a hint
of punishment (hence the '?').
(8) is semantically equivalent to 'Siberia'
I remember seeing as a kid the film "Krakatoa, East of Java" which
became, for a while, an exotic place idiom.
Can we get more data?
At the risk of singing to the choir, can we also get data in other
languages (even Bambara would be appreciated) for idioms that convey
superfluousness ("coals to Newcastle")?
Is the German "owls to Athens," aside from being alliterative, from
another source, such as Latin, whence "cum granno salis" --> "with a
grain of salt" and "mit einem Koernchen Salz"?
Steve Solomon
solomon@aero.UUCP
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From: solomon@aero.ARPA (Steve Solomon)
Newsgroups: net.nlang
Subject: Call for Proper Noun Idioms
Message-ID: <161@aero.ARPA>
Date: 19 Dec 85 20:52:59 GMT
Date-Received: 19 Dec 85 23:06:33 GMT
Reply-To: solomon@aero.UUCP (Steve Solomon)
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Lines: 63
Keywords: Proper Nouns, Idioms
I am interested in idiomatic expressions in English and other languages
that uses proper nouns, from linguistic and cultural perspectives. The
classic English examples,
(1) It's Greek to me.
and the VP
(2) To carry coals to Newcastle
convey exotic language (a sort of meta-semantic variable) and
superfluousness, respectively.
German data: (Gloss)
(3) Es kommt mir Spanisch vor. (1) It's Spanish to me.
and
(4) Eulen nach Athen tragen (2) To carry owls to Athens
The burning question is, in the case of (1) and (3), what constitutes
the notion of 'exotic' in different languages?
Hebrew for (1) is 'Chinese' and I suspect many languages also use the
metaphor of 'Chinese' to express some incomprehensible vernacular within
a language or generic foreign language.
Two variants of (3) are
(5) Es kommt mir vor wie Spanische Doerfer.
(It's like Spanish villages to me)
and
(6) Es kommt mir vor wie Boehmische Doerfer. (Bohemian villages)
What are some other data in other languages? Speakers of Scandinavian
(incl. Finnish) African, and Asian languages, let's hear your input!
(It wouldn't surprise me if Russian for (1) were "It's Russian to me"
since that part of the world is "an enigma wrapped in a puzzle shrouded
behind a mystery." :-) But it's probably Armenian instead.)
On a related note, what are the places thought of as neutrally exotic,
i.e. without a meaning of punishment (Methinks Siberia is universal) or
boredom if one were sent there?
English (7) ?(Outer) Mongolia
(8) *(Northern) Slobovia
Hebrew (9) Honolulu
(7) comes close, and seems to be simply far removed, but does convey a hint
of punishment (hence the '?').
(8) is semantically equivalent to 'Siberia'
I remember seeing as a kid the film "Krakatoa, East of Java" which
became, for a while, an exotic place idiom.
Can we get more data?
At the risk of singing to the choir, can we also get data in other
languages (even Bambara would be appreciated) for idioms that convey
superfluousness ("coals to Newcastle")?
Is the German "owls to Athens," aside from being alliterative, from
another source, such as Latin, whence "cum granno salis" --> "with a
grain of salt" and "mit einem Koernchen Salz"?
Steve Solomon
solomon@aero.UUCPjim@randvax.UUCP (Jim Gillogly) (12/20/85)
In article <161@aero.ARPA> solomon@aero.UUCP (Steve Solomon) writes: >I am interested in idiomatic expressions in English and other languages >that uses proper nouns, from linguistic and cultural perspectives. The >classic English examples, > >(1) It's Greek to me. >(3) Es kommt mir Spanisch vor. (1) It's Spanish to me. >Hebrew for (1) is 'Chinese' and I suspect many languages also use the The Esperanto phrase translates to "It's Volap"uk to me." (^Gi estas min Volap"uka) (I think -- is that right, Neal? Prentiss?). I believe this phrase was blessed by Zamenhof, the designer of the language. Volap"uk was an international language designed some years earlier than Esperanto, and was one of the main reasons that Esperanto never quite took off: many of the True Believers had been once burned. It was notoriously unintelligible: at the Volap"uk conferences nobody was able to speak it to each other! -- Jim Gillogly {decvax, vortex}!randvax!jim jim@rand-unix.arpa
wyatt@cfa.UUCP (Bill Wyatt) (12/21/85)
> I am interested in idiomatic expressions in English and other languages > that uses proper nouns, from linguistic and cultural perspectives. The > classic English examples, > > (1) It's Greek to me. > and the VP > (2) To carry coals to Newcastle From _Native_Tongues_, by Charles Berlitz, Grosset & Dunlap, 1982: English: It's Greek to me. French: It's Hebrew to me. [also] That's lesser Negro. Spanish: That's Chinese to me. German: That seems like Sapnish to me. Russian: That's Chinese grammar. Italian: You're speaking Turkish. Polish: I'm hearing a Turkish sermon. The chapter is entitled "The View from the Tribe" and tells how the various groups view outsiders, blame them (linguistically) for problems ranging from misunderstandings to disease. C.f.: syphillis: In England: The French Pox In France: The English sickness [or] Spanish gout [or] Neapolitan sickness In Germany: The French disease In mainland Greece: The Corinthian sickness -- Bill UUCP: {harvard,genrad,allegra,ihnp4}!wjh12!cfa!wyatt Wyatt ARPA: wyatt%cfa.UUCP@harvard.ARPA
tmoody@sjuvax.UUCP (T. Moody) (12/23/85)
[] I think it's *lower* Slobovia. I recall this locale from the defunct "Li'l Abner" comic strip, by Al Capp. I think that "Timbuktu" also designates a very remote place. Also, I know two people, both from the Baltimore area, who say something along the lines of "...we had to drive all the way out to East Bumfuck and back..." I've never heard anyone *else* mention this picturesque place, but these two people do not know each other, either. Perhaps it's a Baltimore-ism. Todd
franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) (12/24/85)
In article <161@aero.ARPA> solomon@aero.UUCP (Steve Solomon) writes: >On a related note, what are the places thought of as neutrally exotic, >i.e. without a meaning of punishment (Methinks Siberia is universal) or >boredom if one were sent there? > English (7) ?(Outer) Mongolia > (8) *(Northern) Slobovia > Hebrew (9) Honolulu There is also the far side of the moon. Not quite perfect, but close. Frank Adams ihpn4!philabs!pwa-b!mmintl!franka Multimate International 52 Oakland Ave North E. Hartford, CT 06108
gabor@qantel.UUCP (Gabor Fencsik@ex2642) (12/31/85)
In article <157@cfa.UUCP> wyatt@cfa.UUCP (Bill Wyatt) writes: >From _Native_Tongues_, by Charles Berlitz, Grosset & Dunlap, 1982: > >English: It's Greek to me. >French: It's Hebrew to me. [also] That's lesser Negro. >Spanish: That's Chinese to me. >German: That seems like Spanish to me. > ... There is also a concoction that the Hungarians call a French salad; In Paris it is known as a Russian salad; in Moscow they call it a Czech salad. I don't know what the Czechs call it but I suspect the linguistic buck-passing must end somewhere - or perhaps we have a closed cycle. It's just an ordinary appetizer - someone ought to take responsibility for it. ----- Gabor Fencsik {ihnp4,dual,lll-crg,hplabs}!qantel!gabor
christer@kuling.UUCP (Christer Johansson) (01/01/86)
--
SMail: Christer Johansson EMail: {seismo,seismo!mcvax}!enea!kuling!christer OR
Sernandersv. 9:136 christer@kuling.UUCP
S-752 63 Uppsala Phone: Int. +46 - 18 46 31 54
SWEDEN Nat. 018 - 46 31 54christer@kuling.UUCP (Christer Johansson) (01/01/86)
In article <161@aero.ARPA> of Sun, 22-Dec-85 04:54:23 GMT solomon@aero.UUCP (Steve Solomon) writes: > >I am interested in idiomatic expressions in English and other languages >that uses proper nouns, from linguistic and cultural perspectives. >The burning question is [...] what constitutes >the notion of 'exotic' in different languages? It's Greece too me (Det {a"r} Grekiska f{o"}r mig) is an idiomatic expressin in Swedish, thou I don't think many Swedes consider Greece 'exotic'. 'in the darkest of Africa' (I det m{o"}rkaste (av) Afrika) is an other exprision of exotishness. I don't know in what sense Africa was considered dark. This expression does, for some reason, give me the notion of jungle. (Somewhere close to Tarzan's home. :-) >On a related note, what are the places thought of as neutrally exotic, China and Kualalumpur. -- SMail: Christer Johansson EMail: {seismo,seismo!mcvax}!enea!kuling!christer OR Sernandersv. 9:136 christer@kuling.UUCP S-752 63 Uppsala Phone: Int. +46 - 18 46 31 54 SWEDEN Nat. 018 - 46 31 54
andersa@kuling.UUCP (Anders Andersson) (01/01/86)
>>I am interested in idiomatic expressions in English and other languages >>that uses proper nouns, from linguistic and cultural perspectives. >>The burning question is [...] what constitutes >>the notion of 'exotic' in different languages? As speaking of the "exotic" Greek language seems to be common for at least English and Swedish, I would like to add "rotvaelska", which is a Swedish idiom for a non-understandable "nonsense language". It seems to me that the origin of this word might be found in some old German dialect. Isn't there a dog (breed) called Rotweiler to be related to some geographic area? Could you Germans please elaborate on this..? I've heard of an expression used in parts of Germany earlier in this century, namely "die dumme Schweden" (the stupid Swedes). According to the story, this has nothing to do with the inhabitants of Sweden. Rather, when talking about the "Swedes", the speakers actually meant either the Czech or the Slovaks (I don't remember, really), but they preferred not to insult their closest neighbours litterally... Confirmation, anyone? -- Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University, Sweden Phone: +46 18 183170 UUCP: andersa@kuling.UUCP (...!{seismo,mcvax}!enea!kuling!andersa)
lambert@boring.UUCP (Lambert Meertens) (01/01/86)
In article <869@kuling.UUCP> andersa@kuling.UUCP (Anders Andersson) writes: >>> I am interested in idiomatic expressions in English and other languages >>> that uses proper nouns, from linguistic and cultural perspectives. > As speaking of the "exotic" Greek language seems to be common for at least > English and Swedish, I would like to add "rotvaelska", which is a Swedish > idiom for a non-understandable "nonsense language". It seems to me that the > origin of this word might be found in some old German dialect. Isn't there > a dog (breed) called Rotweiler to be related to some geographic area? Could > you Germans please elaborate on this..? I don't know about Swedish and am not German, but according to my dictionary German ROTWELSCH means slang, argot, rather than gibberish. An expression for "gibberish" in Dutch is "Koeterwaals". This could mean something like "the language spoken in Koeterwaal" (several Dutch place names end in -WAAL) except that there is no such place. There is an interesting corresponding between the ending -WAALS here and the ending -VAELSKA in ROTVAELSKA. Also, in Danish the expression is KAUDERVAELSK and in German, next to ROTWELSCH, KAUDERWELSCH. Before the spelling reform of 1947, the official spelling of Dutch WAALS was WAALSCH. The German verb KAUDERN by itself already means "to speak gibberish", as does WELSCHEN. There is no Dutch word *KOETEREN. WAALS in Dutch does not mean Welsh, but French, in particular pertaining to the French-speaking part of Belgium (Walloon). Also, German WELSCH means French (not confined to Belgium) or even Italian. Etymologically, this is related to WELSH, both being descendants of a Germanic word meaning "foreign", i.e. not Germanic, i.e. Celtic or Roman. Quite possibly, the expression KOETERWAALS goes back to a time when the "foreignness" of WAALSCH was still a primary meaning. I doubt that there is a connection with Rottweil (a German town in Baden- Wuerttemberg, after which the breed of dogs is named), if only because that is spelled with TT. -- Lambert Meertens ...!{seismo,okstate,garfield,decvax,philabs}!lambert@mcvax.UUCP CWI (Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science), Amsterdam
dawn@prism.UUCP (01/03/86)
In article <161@aero.ARPA> solomon@aero.UUCP (Steve Solomon) writes: >On a related note, what are the places thought of as neutrally exotic, >i.e. without a meaning of punishment (Methinks Siberia is universal) or >boredom if one were sent there? My father, a New Englander and once a field service rep, often claimed he had to make service calls "out in East Overshoe".
T3B@PSUVM.BITNET (01/06/86)
Lambert Meertens writes: >An >expression for "gibberish" in Dutch is "Koeterwaals". This could mean >omething like "the language spoken in Koeterwaal" (several Dutch place >ames end in -WAAL) except that there is no such place. There is an >nteresting corresponding between the ending -WAALS here and the ending >VAELSKA in ROTVAELSKA. Also, in Danish the expression is KAUDERVAELSK and >In German, next to ROTWELSCH, KAUDERWELSCH. Before the spelling reform of >1947, the official spelling of Dutch WAALS was WAALSCH. The German verb >KAUDERN by itself already means "to speak gibberish", as does WELSCHEN. This had never occured to me before, but reading Lambert Meertens's posting seems to lead to the conclusion that the English word CATERWAUL comes from the same source, and that the etymology and definitions in NEW AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY (1981) may be partly "folk linguistics." In this dictionary, which is the one on my desk at the moment, CATERWAUL is defined as follows: "1. To cry or screech like a cat in heat. 2. To make any discordant sound or shriek. 3. To have a noisy argument. ---n. 1. The cry of cats in heat. 2. Any similar cry. . . . perhaps from Low German katerwaulen : kater, tomcat . . . + waulen, to screech." Is the dictionary just guessing? I'm not a linguist, and so I really don't make any claims one way or the other. Cats or dogs? Tom Benson Department of Speech Communication The Pennsylvania State University 227 Sparks Building University Park, PA 16802 814-238-5277 :akgua,allegra,ihnp4,cbosgd:!psuvax1!psuvm.bitnet!t3b (UUCP) t3b%psuvm.bitnet@wiscvm.arpa (ARPA) T3B@PSUVM (BITNET)
msb@lsuc.UUCP (Mark Brader) (01/08/86)
> >An expression for "gibberish" in Dutch is "Koeterwaals". This could mean > >something like "the language spoken in Koeterwaal" (several Dutch place > >ames end in -WAAL) except that there is no such place. > This had never occured to me before, but reading Lambert Meertens's > posting seems to lead to the conclusion that the English word > CATERWAUL comes from the same source, and that the etymology and > definitions in NEW AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY (1981) may be > partly "folk linguistics." ... [it says] perhaps from Low German > katerwaulen : kater, tomcat . . . + waulen, to screech." Why couldn't "Koeterwaals" be a play on "caterwaul/katerwaulen" and the place-name-language ending "waals"? Sounds good to me. By the way, Random House and OED more or less confirm the origin of "caterwaul". Mark Brader
kort@hounx.UUCP (B.KORT) (01/12/86)
The Yiddish version of "Podunk" is "West Yechupetz".
lambert@boring.UUCP (Lambert Meertens) (01/14/86)
>>> An expression for "gibberish" in Dutch is "Koeterwaals". This could mean >>> something like "the language spoken in Koeterwaal" (several Dutch place >>> names end in -WAAL) except that there is no such place. >> This had never occured to me before, but reading Lambert Meertens's >> posting seems to lead to the conclusion that the English word >> CATERWAUL comes from the same source, and that the etymology and >> definitions in NEW AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY (1981) may be >> partly "folk linguistics." ... [it says] perhaps from Low German >> katerwaulen : kater, tomcat . . . + waulen, to screech." > Why couldn't "Koeterwaals" be a play on "caterwaul/katerwaulen" > and the place-name-language ending "waals"? Sounds good to me. Kinship between words in different languages can be of several types. The main two are: (i) the words are "cognates" (which for the purpose of this article I restrict to the case when the languages have a common ancestor that already had a version of the word, and both took the word with them on their evolutionary paths); and (ii) the word in language A is a "loan word" from language B (and in the course of language evolution the word may have been changed to conform to the phonology, morphology and spelling of A, may have shifted its meaning and may have disappeared from B, so that it only survives in A). For example, English GOOD, Dutch GOED and German GUT are cognates; English FURLOUGH was taken from Dutch VERLOF. (Since the final F is not mute, the GH was probably earlier pronounced as in ROUGH. There is a slight change of meaning, since Dutch VERLOF often means FURLOUGH, but is used also for other kinds of LEAVE--a cognate of the component LOF--than those of absence.) In DOUBLEGANGER from German DOPPELGAENGER we see a partial replacement by a cognate word; EIGENVALUE from EIGENWERT is much weirder (EIGEN is cognate to OWN, but VALUE has no kinship or resemblance to WERT). It may also happen that a word in language A is a neologism modelled after a word in language B; if A and B are relatives, this may result in something indistinguishable from cognates or loan words, except by historical research. An example is Dutch VERLOF, which was modelled after German VERLAUB. Although both words are built from cognate components, they are not considered cognates in their entirety since VERLOF once was a neologism. It is not considered a loan word either, because at the time the word was formed (and also now) the meaning of the newfangled word was not so much VERLAUB, but rather URLAUB (or ERLAUBNIS), VERLAUB being only used in the deferential phrase MIT VERLAUB = WITH [YOUR] PERMISSION. However, the distinction with a loan word is tenuous in this case. Other possible influences are that an existing word in language A is modified under the influence of a similar word in language B; this may involve the spelling, the meaning, or both. This host (from Old French [H]OST, cognate with GUEST) of possibilities makes etymology a difficult science, fraught (from Dutch VRACHT, cognate with FREIGHT) with pitfalls for amateurs like you and I. Before professional etymologists will admit so much as the plausibility of cognation, the words in question must be derivable from an older common form, for each of the languages involved in accordance with the developmental laws for that language. Furthermore, if one has to go back as far as a reconstructed common ancestor X which has not been recorded, than one wants to find the word attested in other descendants of X as well. However, there are cases in which the cognation is so obvious as to be unquestioned, but with quirks in the evolutionary development or with an unexplainable lack of attesting forms in some descendants of the common ancestor. In the end, it all is a question of more or less plausible, in the context of a whole web of plausibilities. There is no doubt in my mind that the WAALS in KOETERWAALS and the WELSCH in KAUDERWELSCH are related, and the most plausible is that they are cognates, as is English WELSH. In equating KOETER with KAUDER, however, there is a huge problem: Dutch (and English) T can correspond to German Z (TWEE/TWO/ZWEI) or SS (WATER/WATER/WASSER), and in later common loans, often from Romanic languages, to German T (TOREN/TOWER/TURM), but not to German D. The converse would not be a problem (DEUR/DOOR/TUER, VADER/FATHER/VATER, DUIZEND/THOUSAND/TAUSEND). German D is always D in Dutch cognate words and then TH (voiced or unvoiced) in English (DAT/THAT/DASS, DIK/THICK/DICK) or D in English in later common loans (DOZIJN/DOZEN/DUTZEND). (In the triple DOM/DUMB/DUMM a Low German version DUMM that kept the voicing of D like Dutch did superseded the Old High German version TUMP, now extinct.) Also, although Dutch OE can correspond to German AU (BOER/BAUER), this is a rare and irregular happening, possibly occasioned by the need to distinguish in Dutch between the meanings of neighbour (now Dutch BUUR) and peasant, whereas the German form was influenced by the verb BAUEN (to build); cf. Dutch LANDBOUW = agriculture, whence LANDBOUWER. Normally, Dutch OE corresponds to English OO and German U or UE (VOET/FOOT/FUSS) and German AU to Dutch UI and English OU (HUIS/HOUSE/HAUS). In summary, for Dutch KOETER we should expect a German counterpart *KU(E)SSER and for German KAUDER Dutch *KUIDER. A regular English counterpart to KOETER would be *COOTER and to KAUDER it would be *COWTHER or possibly *KYTHER. In view of the identical and specialized meanings, and an undeniable resemblance, it seems unlikely at first sight that there is no genetic relationship at all between KOETER and KAUDER. [A correction to my earlier article: I stated: "There is no Dutch word *KOETEREN." This is wrong. Although I did never encounter the word before, it is listed in Dutch dictionaries, with the same meaning as German KAUDERN, viz. to gibber/jabber, or specifically to talk in a foreign language not understood by the person who classifies this as KOETEREN. The -EN is the Dutch infinitive suffix to the stem KOETER.] In view of the difficulties mentioned above, it is highly implausible that both derive from one form in Germanic. In view of the fact that the pronunciations are well apart, later loans, either in one language from the other or from a common source, are also quite implausible. Now where does this leave us? It does not suffice to dispel the hypothesis of a genetic relationship, but makes it rather more implausible than it appeared on first sight. To save the hypothesis, we have to invent a more tortuous road. For example, in some Dutch/Low German dialects, the Dutch UI/High German AU vowel is represented by an /u/ sound (as in FOOT = /fut/); rendered in Dutch orthography (/u/ = OE) we have HOES instead of HUIS or HAUS. So there, at least *KOEDER would be regular. If the word is a later borrowing in "High" Dutch from such a dialect, this could explain the OE. And so on (maybe). More evidence would still be needed. As to CATERWAUL, cognation with KOETERWAALS or KAUDERWELSH is implausible, since huge problems in explaining vowel shifts are compounded with an a priori less likely relationship because of the difference in meaning. According to The Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology, the earliest attested cognate formation is CATERWAWED (Chaucer: Wife of Bath's Prologue 354; some mss. have -WRAWET). I don't have a copy of Chaucer; an interesting question is whether the meaning there is already unmistakably that of "noice (like that) produced by cats in rut". There are many reasons for not thinking KOETERWAALS to be a word play on CATERWAUL. In the first place, although there is a surprisingly large number of loan words in English from Dutch or Low German, there are hardly any loan words in English from Dutch, except for recent acquisitions that have kept English spelling and usually pronunciation: COMPUTER, pronounced /k)mpjut0r/; FOLKLORE, pronounced /f)lkl):r0/. In fact, I cannot find even one single example of a loan word from English that has been "Dutchified", although I am sure there must be some. Secondly, for a loan word such a huge vowel shift as from /ae/ to /u/ is unexplainable. To Dutch ears, /kaet0rw):l/ sounds like /ket0rw)l/ and would be rendered *KETTERWOL. A literate person might have turned the word into something like *KATERWAUWELEN (KATER = TOMCAT; WAUWELEN, which has the form of a frequentive of *WAUWEN, = BLATHER, TWADDLE). Thirdly, loan words usually arise because the donating language has a word for a concept in want of an embodiment in the receiving language (like CLOCK from Dutch KLOK filled the need for a word for this new invention). At the time of the loan, the meaning of the imported word is at least one of the meanings of the original (Dutch KLOK originally meant and still has as one of its meanings BELL). If CATERWAUL meant "wail like a cat" all the time, it would not have been borrowed, since Dutch has no problem in expressing the concept. Even if it had been borrowed nevertheless, the semantic shift from "cat wailing" to "gibberish" is huge. Finally, the evidence in the diagram Dutch German Danish Swedish WAALS WELSCH (Romanic) ROTWELSCH ROTVAELSKA (argot) KOETERWAALS KAUDERWELSCH KAUDERVAELSK (gibberish) in favor of -WAALS in KOETERWAALS being the "same" as stand-alone WAALS is just too strong. To return to the original subject, what about Double Dutch? -- Lambert Meertens ...!{seismo,okstate,garfield,decvax,philabs}!lambert@mcvax.UUCP CWI (Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science), Amsterdam
rjw@ptsfc.UUCP (Rod Williams) (01/14/86)
>The Yiddish version of "Podunk" is "West Yechupetz".
And the Irish version is Ballygobackwards...
--
rod williams | {ihnp4,dual}!ptsfa!ptsfc!rjw
-------------------------------------------
pacific bell | san ramon | californiamsb@lsuc.UUCP (Mark Brader) (01/16/86)
>> The Yiddish version of "Podunk" is "West Yechupetz". > And the Irish version is Ballygobackwards... And the New Zealand version is "Waikikamukau". (Looks like hundreds of real Maori names, but sounds like "Why kick a moo cow?") Mark Brader Not made in NZ, but sure enjoyed visiting...
gh@utai.UUCP (Graeme Hirst) (01/17/86)
>>> The Yiddish version of "Podunk" is "West Yechupetz". >> And the Irish version is Ballygobackwards... > And the New Zealand version is "Waikikamukau". > (Looks like hundreds of real Maori names, but sounds like "Why kick a moo cow?") And in Australia, it's "Woop Woop" (the vowel is short) -- an imitation aboriginal placename. -- \\\\ Graeme Hirst University of Toronto Computer Science Department //// utcsri!utai!gh / gh.toronto@csnet-relay / 416-978-8747
jsq@im4u.UUCP (John Quarterman) (01/20/86)
Nobody seems to have mentioned "Bumfuck, Egypt".
It's commonly used in the South of the U.S.
--
John Quarterman, UUCP: {gatech,harvard,ihnp4,pyramid,seismo}!ut-sally!im4u!jsq
ARPA Internet and CSNET: jsq@im4u.UTEXAS.EDU, jsq@sally.UTEXAS.EDU