[net.nlang] Americanisms and Canadianisms

wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (12/18/85)

In article <974@lsuc.UUCP> msb@lsuc.UUCP (Mark Brader) writes:
>Of course, maybe Randy thinks it's unimaginable that an American would
>adopt the courtesy of using another person's vocabulary.

It might be instructive (even amusing) to take this chance to try and
put together a list of some of the more common Americanisms/Canadianisms
which are liable to confuse people from the opposite side of the border.

Right off the top of my head, I can think of several words or phrases
which (so I am told) are current in Canada, but which many or most
Americans (oops, sorry, I mean "residents of the USA" :-}) would not
understand at all.  Here's a small initial contribution:

	Canadian usage			American usage
	--------------			--------------
	Z (pronounced "zed")		Z (pronounced "zee")
	shone (rhymes with "gone")	shone (rhymes with "bone")
	khaki (pronounced "car key")	khaki (rhymes with "tacky")
	back bacon			Canadian bacon
	eaves trough			rain gutter
	toque (rhymes with "kook")	stocking cap
	chesterfield			sofa
	chesterbed			sofa bed, hide-a-bed
	riding (legislative district)	district
	to hose, hose over		to gyp, cheat, screw over

Can anyone add to this list (or make corrections if it contains errors)?

Particularly interesting would be stories of actual experiences of some-
one from Canada being misunderstood in the States through inadvertent
use of a Canadianism (like the apocryphal story of the Canadian who went
to an American department store and asked where the chesterfields were,
only to be told that the store in question didn't sell tobacco!).

At the risk of committing an ethnocentric gaffe, I would assume that
there probably aren't nearly as many Americanisms that confuse people
from Canada as the other way around -- since the U.S. mass media has
(much to many people's dismay, I know) permeated the market up north
for some time now.  However, if anyone knows of instances where an
American was misunderstood in Canada because of differences in region-
alisms, please speak up.  (E.g.:  Has any American, while spelling a
word or name containing a Z, been misunderstood because a Canadian
thought he had heard a C?  In this regard, it should be noted that most
American ham radio operators -- myself included -- say "zed" instead of
"zee" over the radio, for precisely this reason.)

In addition to usage which would actually cause non-understanding or
misunderstanding between people from the two countries, maybe we could
also try to list words/phrases which -- though usually understood on
both sides of the border -- are still perceived as unnatural when used
in the other country.  For instance:

	Canadian usage			American usage
	--------------			--------------
	in hospital			in the hospital
	to stand for office		to run for office
	eh?				huh?

I'm sure this second list can be expanded considerably.
-- 
Rich Wales // UCLA Computer Science Department // +1 213-825-5683
	3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, California 90024 // USA
	ARPA:   wales@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU  -or-  wales@UCLA-LOCUS.ARPA
	UUCP:   ...!(ucbvax,ihnp4)!ucla-cs!wales

friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) (12/18/85)

In article <8086@ucla-cs.ARPA> wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (Rich Wales) writes:
>
>	Canadian usage			American usage
>	--------------			--------------
>	Z (pronounced "zed")		Z (pronounced "zee")
>	shone (rhymes with "gone")	shone (rhymes with "bone")
>	khaki (pronounced "car key")	khaki (rhymes with "tacky")
>	back bacon			Canadian bacon
>	eaves trough			rain gutter
>	toque (rhymes with "kook")	stocking cap
>	chesterfield			sofa
>	chesterbed			sofa bed, hide-a-bed
>	riding (legislative district)	district
>	to hose, hose over		to gyp, cheat, screw over
>
>	in hospital			in the hospital
>	to stand for office		to run for office
>	eh?				huh?
>
	Hmmm, sounds like Canadian English is a lot closer to British
English than to "American" English, several of these are match the
British usage. Even 'riding' meaning district is found in England, at
least in northern England, where York is divided into three ridings.
-- 

				Sarima (Stanley Friesen)

UUCP: {ttidca|ihnp4|sdcrdcf|quad1|nrcvax|bellcore|logico}!psivax!friesen
ARPA: ttidca!psivax!friesen@rand-unix.arpa

al@psivax.UUCP (Al Schwartz) (12/19/85)

In article <8086@ucla-cs.ARPA> wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (Rich Wales) writes:
>It might be instructive (even amusing) to take this chance to try and
>put together a list of some of the more common Americanisms/Canadianisms
>which are liable to confuse people from the opposite side of the border.
>
>	Canadian usage			American usage
>	--------------			--------------
>	back bacon			Canadian bacon
>	toque (rhymes with "kook")	stocking cap
>	to hose, hose over		to gyp, cheat, screw over
>
The canadian comedy team of Bob and Doug Mackenzie have been trying their best
to make some of these "Canadianisms" known to the rest of the world by putting
them into their songs.  I have been hearing their version of the "12 days of
Christmas" on the radio lately.  Some of the verses are:

...  Five Golden Toques.  Four pounds of Back Bacon,  ...

They also each accuse the other of "screwing over" the other, hence they call
each other a "hoser".
-- 
                  Al Schwartz
                  Pacesetter Systems, Inc.,  Sylmar, CA
UUCP: {ttidca|ihnp4|sdcrdcf|quad1|nrcvax|bellcore|logico}!psivax!al
ARPA: ttidca!psivax!al@rand-unix.arpa

hogg@utcsri.UUCP (John Hogg) (12/20/85)

About the supposedly archetypical Canadianism "hoser":

Until Doug and Bob Mackenzie appeared on the scene, I had never heard this
word before -- and I've lived here all my life.  Furthermore, I could not
find anybody who knew its derivation.  "One who hoses" sounds as good as
any, but then, "to hose" meaning "to cheat" was not in common Canadian (or
at least Ontarian) usage either.  And *nobody* said "Take off!" in the
pre-Mackenzie era!

And to correct the Canadianism list, chesterbeds have never been seen in
this part of the country.  We do have hide-a-beds and Murphy beds.
-- 

John Hogg
Computer Systems Research Institute, UofT
...utzoo!utcsri!hogg

Standard disclaimer: the above may or may not contain sarcasm, satire or
irony.  It does not contain smiley-faces.  If you're illiterate, don't
flame me.

lamy@utai.UUCP (Jean-Francois Lamy) (12/20/85)

>In article <8086@ucla-cs.ARPA> wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (Rich Wales) writes:
>>	Canadian usage			American usage
>>	--------------			--------------
...
>>	toque (rhymes with "kook")	stocking cap
        ^^^^^^
I guess that should be "tuque", which comes from French (though the
pronounciation does not).

-- 

Jean-Francois Lamy
Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto,
Departement d'informatique et de recherche operationnelle, U. de Montreal.

CSNet:      lamy@toronto.csnet
UUCP:       {utzoo,ihnp4,decwrl,uw-beaver}!utcsri!utai!lamy
CDN:        lamy@iro.udem.cdn (lamy%iro.udem.cdn@ubc.csnet)

wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (12/21/85)

A few more Canadianisms which would probably confuse us "Yanks" :-}, and
which I forgot to include in my first list:

==> to "table" a motion (in legislative procedure):

	In Canada, this means to put a proposal forth for consideration.
	In the U.S., it means to postpone consideration indefinitely (a
	nice way to kill a measure without explicitly voting it down).

	I remember reading somewhere about some international treaty or
	armistice commission in which U.S. and Canadian delegates were
	discussing some idea both groups favored (actually, the Canadian
	group probably favoured the idea -- but the Americans heard them
	wrong and thought they said they favored it :-}).  Anyway, the
	U.S. delegation couldn't understand why the Canadians wanted to
	*table* the proposal in question if they thought it was such a
	good idea!

==> "hydro":

	Electric power provided by a utility company (e.g., "the hydro
	was out for three hours after the big storm the other night").
	I assume the word arose because most of the electric power in
	Canada comes (or, at one time, came) from hydroelectric plants.

	This term isn't used in the States at all; most Americans would
	probably misinterpret it as referring to the water supply.

==> to "hork" (spelling uncertain):

	Apparently a slang expression meaning "to steal" -- though I
	would prefer to get a confirmation of this from a Canadian
	before adding it to my data.

	In the movie "Strange Brew", which I saw last night, Bob and
	Doug McKenzie used this word after playing a hockey match with
	inmates of an insane asylum, only to find later on that their
	clothes were gone when they returned to their lockers.  (Some-
	thing like, "Hey!  Those hosers horked our clothes, eh?")

	I tried looking this one up in the Gage Canadian Dictionary
	(which I picked up while at the Toronto USENIX conference in
	1983), but couldn't find it.  Maybe I heard it wrong; then
	again, this particular dictionary isn't very strong on obscure
	technical or slang expressions.  Can anyone out there shed more
	light?

A friend mentioned to me the other day about how he had heard a UNIX
hacker from Canada talk about a "struct proke" (rhymes with "broke") in
the kernel.  Turns out he was talking about the good ol' "struct proc"
(which, in the American mouth, rhymes with "crock" -- no value judgment
implied :-}).  "Proke" is an eminently reasonable verbal abbreviation
for "process", *if* you pronounce this latter word as "proh-cess" (as do
many Canadians, but virtually no Americans).  My friend also said that
his Canadian UNIX hacker acquaintance seems to have adopted the American
pronunciation for "proc" now -- no doubt because no one had any idea
*what* in the world a "proke" was.

And, of course, my list of Canadian/American differences should have
included the entry that started this whole discussion:

	Canadian usage			American usage
	--------------			--------------
	the U.S., the States		America
-- 
Rich Wales // UCLA Computer Science Department // +1 213-825-5683
	3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, California 90024 // USA
	ARPA:   wales@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU  -or-  wales@UCLA-LOCUS.ARPA
	UUCP:   ...!(ucbvax,ihnp4)!ucla-cs!wales

edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) (12/23/85)

In article <1828@utcsri.UUCP> hogg@utcsri.UUCP (John Hogg) writes:
>About the supposedly archetypical Canadianism "hoser":
>
>Until Doug and Bob Mackenzie appeared on the scene, I had never heard this
>word before -- and I've lived here all my life.  Furthermore, I could not
>find anybody who knew its derivation.  "One who hoses" sounds as good as

 I have a friend from upper Michigan who used it before Doug and Bob.

fred@mot.UUCP (Fred Christiansen) (12/27/85)

i've gotten a kick out of this discussion.  while a Canadian by birth,
i've spent most years elsewhere.  so, i suspect what i speak is a mixture
of many places, and am, in turn, woefully ignorant of many Canadianisms.
	which leads me to suggest that many "Americanisms" or "Canadianisms"
which have already or may yet pop up are often really regionalisms.  whatever,
these are equally or even more interesting.
	now, i have a question about accents.  are there really any
Canadians that pronounce "about" as "a-boot"?  frequently, people will identify
me as Canadian because i just said "a-boot".  i ask them to listen again,
carefully, and then they notice that it's not "aboot", but a clipped-vowel-sound
"a-bowht" (a good sound rep??) rather than the drawn out vowel sound that
i hear Americans use.
-- 
<< Generic disclaimer >>
Fred Christiansen ("Canajun, eh?") @ Motorola Microsystems, Tempe, AZ
UUCP:  {seismo!terak, trwrb!flkvax, utzoo!mnetor, ihnp4}!mot!fred
ARPA:  oakhill!mot!fred@ut-sally.ARPA          "Families are Forever"

mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) (12/28/85)

In the States, I once ordered "Brown Toast" with breakfast, and got
toasted white bread.  When I complained, the waitress said "All toast
is brown if it's cooked enough."  I should have ordered "Whole wheat toast."
-- 

Martin Taylor
{allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt
{uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsri!dciem!mmt

ludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) (01/01/86)

In article <8086@ucla-cs.ARPA> wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (Rich Wales) writes:
>It might be instructive (even amusing) to take this chance to try and
>put together a list of some of the more common Americanisms/Canadianisms
>which are liable to confuse people from the opposite side of the border.

Here are a few more:

	Canadian usage			American usage
	--------------			--------------
	route (pronounced "root")	(pronounced to rhyme with "out")
	hawk (hock?) [slang]: to steal
	deke (out) [hockey slang]	to fake (out) (an opponent) 

When I was in elementary school, we were usually taught British
spellings ("centre", "programme, " etc.) but with the odd Americanism
("jail", "connection", "curb" instead of "gaol", "connexion", "kerb").
Final -ize tended to be preferred over -ise.  Newspapers and magazines tend 
to use all American speellings, probably because they're shorter (one
"national" newspaper even uses "cigaret").  For many things, we use
the American words rather than British (I'm sure that someone referring
to a "lift" (elevator) or "boot/wing of a car" (trunk/finder) would get
funny looks.  On the other hand, "spanner" seems to be generally understood
as a "non-adjustable wrench").

This reminds me of when I was looking for a job of teaching English
in Japan.  Everyone wanted to learn "American English" and they
weren't sure what Canadian English was.  After getting over my
nationalistic indignation, I explained that Canadian English was
very similar to what Americans use on TV, but less nasal.  This
seemed to satisfy them.  Anyway, my classes responded with howls
of laughter when I explained the difference between Candian "eh?"
and American "huh?" (from my British grandmother: "Don't say 'eh',
say 'wot' like your father").

Whilst in Japan, it took me a while to realise that "American"
(actually "Amerika-jin") wasn't meant as an insult, it just
meant "white foreigner").

There exist a couple of books (I don't know the publisher/author) called
"Canajan, eh" and "Murrican, huh" which contain many of the distinctive
speech patterns of the two groups.
-- 
-- Peter Ludemann
	ludemann@ubc-cs.uucp (ubc-vision!ubc-cs!ludemann)
	ludemann@cs.ubc.cdn  (ludemann@cs.ubc.cdn@ubc.mailnet)
	ludemann@ubc.csnet   (ludemann%ubc.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA)

franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) (01/04/86)

In article <129@ubc-cs.UUCP> ludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) writes:
>	Canadian usage			American usage
>	--------------			--------------
>	route (pronounced "root")	(pronounced to rhyme with "out")

Which pronunciation of "root" did you have in mind?  Some people pronounce
it to rhyme with "boot"; others rhyme it with "soot".

The pronunciation of "route" to rhyme with "boot" is not a pure Canadianism,
in any case; I have heard it quite often in the U.S.

Frank Adams                           ihpn4!philabs!pwa-b!mmintl!franka
Multimate International    52 Oakland Ave North    E. Hartford, CT 06108

kay@warwick.UUCP (Kay Dekker) (01/05/86)

In article <907@psivax.UUCP> friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) writes:
>	Hmmm, sounds like Canadian English is a lot closer to British
>English than to "American" English, several of these are match the
>British usage. Even 'riding' meaning district is found in England, at
>least in northern England, where York is divided into three ridings.

Not *quite* accurate, but pretty near; prior to the Conservative government's
county boundary shuffle in the early 70's, YorkSHIRE was divided into three
parts: the North, East and West Ridings.  'Riding' is from the Old English
'thriding' [Old Norse 'thridhjungr', a third part; Yorkshire was settled
several times by the Danes].  York itself (which lay centrally to the
Ridings) was not *in* any of them, but lay in an ara known as the Ansty
[can't remember the derivation of this offhand].

						Kay.
-- 
This .signature void where prohibited by law
						...ukc!warwick!kay

suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) (01/07/86)

> 	Canadian usage			American usage
> 	--------------			--------------
> 	route (pronounced "root")	(pronounced to rhyme with "out")

I have never been to Canada. And I have always pronounced
route as "root". I believe the pronunciation is regional,
rather than national. I grew up in Texas, and lived there
until I graduated from college. Since then I've lived all
over. I've heard both pronunciations from Americans.

Is this also true of Canadians? Do they pronounce route both
as "root" and to rime with "out"?
-- 
Merry Christmas!

Suzanne Barnett-Scott
uucp:	 ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze
CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division
14151 N 76th Street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
(602) 998-4800

kort@hounx.UUCP (B.KORT) (01/12/86)

I once had an apartment-mate from Red Deer, Alberta (somewhere in
"the wilds of Canada").  As I learned it from him, Canadians go
"oot and aboot and spend their dohlers."  Canadian sports enthusiasts
love to go to "tornaments."  --Barry Kort

ray@othervax.UUCP (Raymond D. Dunn) (01/13/86)

In article <965@terak.UUCP> suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) writes:
>....
>Is this also true of Canadians? Do they pronounce route both
>as "root" and to rime with "out"?
>....

They pronounce it as root, but of course they also spell rhyme correctly!

Ray Dunn.  ..philabs!micomvax!othervax!ray

[acclaimer: this is supposed to be humourous, not a spelling flame.]

 P.S. Why do we ALL pronounce ROUTER (the tool - same word derivation) to
 rhyme with OUTER.

ludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) (01/13/86)

In article <992@mmintl.UUCP> franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) writes:
>In article <129@ubc-cs.UUCP> ludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) writes:
>>	Canadian usage			American usage
>>	--------------			--------------
>>	route (pronounced "root")	(pronounced to rhyme with "out")
>
>Which pronunciation of "root" did you have in mind?  Some people pronounce
>it to rhyme with "boot"; others rhyme it with "soot".
>
>The pronunciation of "route" to rhyme with "boot" is not a pure Canadianism,
>in any case; I have heard it quite often in the U.S.

I pronounce "route" to rhyme with "boot".  Where does the rhyming with
"soot" come from (I've never heard it, although I have heard "roof"
pronounced with the same vowel (American only))?

While we're on the subject, a few more differences: 
- semi-	Canadian "semee", American "sem-eye"
- hero- Canadian "heero", American "heeeero"
(I think I'm more sensitive than most people to the length of "long"
vowels because I'm used to making such distinctions in Japanese).

Generally, the Canadian pronounciations seem more in line with British
pronounciation, taking into account vowel shifts between the accents.
The American pronounciation seems to have more "exceptions".

Incidentally, the Mackenzie brothers pronounciation seems to be
a take-off on the Newfoundland accent - it's not common in the rest
of the country.  Apparently the Newfoundland accent preserves the
original British accents so well that a person's ancestry can be traced
to a particular Irish or English village just on how s/he pronounces
certain words and what meaning s/he assigns to them.

-- 
-- Peter Ludemann
	ludemann@ubc-cs.uucp (ubc-vision!ubc-cs!ludemann)
	ludemann@cs.ubc.cdn  (ludemann@cs.ubc.cdn@ubc.mailnet)
	ludemann@ubc.csnet   (ludemann%ubc.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA)

faunt@hplabs.UUCP (Doug Faunt) (01/14/86)

> 	Canadian usage			American usage
> 	--------------			--------------
> 	route (pronounced "root")	(pronounced to rhyme with "out")
> 
As used on the famous Canadian song and TV show, "Route 66"?
-- 
        ....!hplabs!faunt		faunt@hplabs.ARPA
HP is not responsible for anything I say here.  In fact, what I say here
may have been generated by a noisy telephone line.

ivester@amc.UUCP (Paul Ivester) (01/16/86)

   >In article <965@terak.UUCP> suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) writes:
>>Is this also true of Canadians? Do they pronounce route both
>>as "root" and to rime with "out"?
   In article <750@othervax.UUCP> ray@othervax.UUCP (Raymond D. Dunn) writes:
>They pronounce it as root...

Yes, but do you pronounce the vowel in root as in boot or as in book?
Around Seattle, most people pronounce it as in book, though it often
can vary with context.

suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) (01/16/86)

> In article <965@terak.UUCP> suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) writes:
> >....
> >Is this also true of Canadians? Do they pronounce route both
> >as "root" and to rime with "out"?
> >....
> 
> They pronounce it as root, but of course they also spell rhyme correctly!
> 
> Ray Dunn.  ..philabs!micomvax!othervax!ray
> 
> [acclaimer: this is supposed to be humourous, not a spelling flame.]
> 
>  P.S. Why do we ALL pronounce ROUTER (the tool - same word derivation) to
>  rhyme with OUTER.

Of course, "rime" is in the dictionary, as is "rhyme" which is
I'm sure the prefered spelling. I just like doing some things
a bit different. (For example, I'm an American who puts a "u" in
colour and crosses my sevens.) Remember the rather well known
_Rime_Of_The_Ancient_Mariner_ ?
-- 
Suzanne Barnett-Scott
uucp:	 ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze
CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division
14151 N 76th Street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
(602) 998-4800

suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) (01/16/86)

> In article <992@mmintl.UUCP> franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) writes:
> >In article <129@ubc-cs.UUCP> ludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) writes:
> >>	Canadian usage			American usage
> >>	--------------			--------------
> >>	route (pronounced "root")	(pronounced to rhyme with "out")
> >
> >Which pronunciation of "root" did you have in mind?  Some people pronounce
> >it to rhyme with "boot"; others rhyme it with "soot".
> >
> >The pronunciation of "route" to rhyme with "boot" is not a pure Canadianism,
> >in any case; I have heard it quite often in the U.S.
> 
> I pronounce "route" to rhyme with "boot".  Where does the rhyming with
> "soot" come from (I've never heard it, although I have heard "roof"
> pronounced with the same vowel (American only))?
>
It isn't the word "route" that is sometimes rimed with "soot".
It is the word "root" (you know, the part of a plant that
grows below the ground). I would have said it is pronounced
closer to "rut", but on reflection, that which I've heard is
somewhere between the vowel sound in soot and that in rut.
That was the way a high scholl friend and her mother
pronounced it. They were originally from Missouri, I think,
but I don't know if that is where they got that pronunciation,
or if it came from somewhere else they'd lived.
-- 
Suzanne Barnett-Scott
uucp:	 ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze
CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division
14151 N 76th Street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
(602) 998-4800

stu16@whuxl.UUCP (SMITH) (01/24/86)

     In Norfolk, Va. in the very early 50s -

         out     oot
         boot    but
         salad   gerns
         roof    ruf
         root    rut
         route   rut
         house   hoose
         mouse   moose  (There's moose in the hoose! Get it
oot!)
     Being a native Manhattanite, it took a while before I
could make sense out of the accent. Also, a fire engine
became a fahrnjn.

      Then of course there's the Down East proununciations:
       
             park    pack
             car     caar
             smart   smaat
-- 
whuxl!stu16