wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (12/18/85)
In article <974@lsuc.UUCP> msb@lsuc.UUCP (Mark Brader) writes: >Of course, maybe Randy thinks it's unimaginable that an American would >adopt the courtesy of using another person's vocabulary. It might be instructive (even amusing) to take this chance to try and put together a list of some of the more common Americanisms/Canadianisms which are liable to confuse people from the opposite side of the border. Right off the top of my head, I can think of several words or phrases which (so I am told) are current in Canada, but which many or most Americans (oops, sorry, I mean "residents of the USA" :-}) would not understand at all. Here's a small initial contribution: Canadian usage American usage -------------- -------------- Z (pronounced "zed") Z (pronounced "zee") shone (rhymes with "gone") shone (rhymes with "bone") khaki (pronounced "car key") khaki (rhymes with "tacky") back bacon Canadian bacon eaves trough rain gutter toque (rhymes with "kook") stocking cap chesterfield sofa chesterbed sofa bed, hide-a-bed riding (legislative district) district to hose, hose over to gyp, cheat, screw over Can anyone add to this list (or make corrections if it contains errors)? Particularly interesting would be stories of actual experiences of some- one from Canada being misunderstood in the States through inadvertent use of a Canadianism (like the apocryphal story of the Canadian who went to an American department store and asked where the chesterfields were, only to be told that the store in question didn't sell tobacco!). At the risk of committing an ethnocentric gaffe, I would assume that there probably aren't nearly as many Americanisms that confuse people from Canada as the other way around -- since the U.S. mass media has (much to many people's dismay, I know) permeated the market up north for some time now. However, if anyone knows of instances where an American was misunderstood in Canada because of differences in region- alisms, please speak up. (E.g.: Has any American, while spelling a word or name containing a Z, been misunderstood because a Canadian thought he had heard a C? In this regard, it should be noted that most American ham radio operators -- myself included -- say "zed" instead of "zee" over the radio, for precisely this reason.) In addition to usage which would actually cause non-understanding or misunderstanding between people from the two countries, maybe we could also try to list words/phrases which -- though usually understood on both sides of the border -- are still perceived as unnatural when used in the other country. For instance: Canadian usage American usage -------------- -------------- in hospital in the hospital to stand for office to run for office eh? huh? I'm sure this second list can be expanded considerably. -- Rich Wales // UCLA Computer Science Department // +1 213-825-5683 3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, California 90024 // USA ARPA: wales@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU -or- wales@UCLA-LOCUS.ARPA UUCP: ...!(ucbvax,ihnp4)!ucla-cs!wales
friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) (12/18/85)
In article <8086@ucla-cs.ARPA> wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (Rich Wales) writes: > > Canadian usage American usage > -------------- -------------- > Z (pronounced "zed") Z (pronounced "zee") > shone (rhymes with "gone") shone (rhymes with "bone") > khaki (pronounced "car key") khaki (rhymes with "tacky") > back bacon Canadian bacon > eaves trough rain gutter > toque (rhymes with "kook") stocking cap > chesterfield sofa > chesterbed sofa bed, hide-a-bed > riding (legislative district) district > to hose, hose over to gyp, cheat, screw over > > in hospital in the hospital > to stand for office to run for office > eh? huh? > Hmmm, sounds like Canadian English is a lot closer to British English than to "American" English, several of these are match the British usage. Even 'riding' meaning district is found in England, at least in northern England, where York is divided into three ridings. -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) UUCP: {ttidca|ihnp4|sdcrdcf|quad1|nrcvax|bellcore|logico}!psivax!friesen ARPA: ttidca!psivax!friesen@rand-unix.arpa
al@psivax.UUCP (Al Schwartz) (12/19/85)
In article <8086@ucla-cs.ARPA> wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (Rich Wales) writes: >It might be instructive (even amusing) to take this chance to try and >put together a list of some of the more common Americanisms/Canadianisms >which are liable to confuse people from the opposite side of the border. > > Canadian usage American usage > -------------- -------------- > back bacon Canadian bacon > toque (rhymes with "kook") stocking cap > to hose, hose over to gyp, cheat, screw over > The canadian comedy team of Bob and Doug Mackenzie have been trying their best to make some of these "Canadianisms" known to the rest of the world by putting them into their songs. I have been hearing their version of the "12 days of Christmas" on the radio lately. Some of the verses are: ... Five Golden Toques. Four pounds of Back Bacon, ... They also each accuse the other of "screwing over" the other, hence they call each other a "hoser". -- Al Schwartz Pacesetter Systems, Inc., Sylmar, CA UUCP: {ttidca|ihnp4|sdcrdcf|quad1|nrcvax|bellcore|logico}!psivax!al ARPA: ttidca!psivax!al@rand-unix.arpa
hogg@utcsri.UUCP (John Hogg) (12/20/85)
About the supposedly archetypical Canadianism "hoser": Until Doug and Bob Mackenzie appeared on the scene, I had never heard this word before -- and I've lived here all my life. Furthermore, I could not find anybody who knew its derivation. "One who hoses" sounds as good as any, but then, "to hose" meaning "to cheat" was not in common Canadian (or at least Ontarian) usage either. And *nobody* said "Take off!" in the pre-Mackenzie era! And to correct the Canadianism list, chesterbeds have never been seen in this part of the country. We do have hide-a-beds and Murphy beds. -- John Hogg Computer Systems Research Institute, UofT ...utzoo!utcsri!hogg Standard disclaimer: the above may or may not contain sarcasm, satire or irony. It does not contain smiley-faces. If you're illiterate, don't flame me.
lamy@utai.UUCP (Jean-Francois Lamy) (12/20/85)
>In article <8086@ucla-cs.ARPA> wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (Rich Wales) writes: >> Canadian usage American usage >> -------------- -------------- ... >> toque (rhymes with "kook") stocking cap ^^^^^^ I guess that should be "tuque", which comes from French (though the pronounciation does not). -- Jean-Francois Lamy Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto, Departement d'informatique et de recherche operationnelle, U. de Montreal. CSNet: lamy@toronto.csnet UUCP: {utzoo,ihnp4,decwrl,uw-beaver}!utcsri!utai!lamy CDN: lamy@iro.udem.cdn (lamy%iro.udem.cdn@ubc.csnet)
wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (12/21/85)
A few more Canadianisms which would probably confuse us "Yanks" :-}, and which I forgot to include in my first list: ==> to "table" a motion (in legislative procedure): In Canada, this means to put a proposal forth for consideration. In the U.S., it means to postpone consideration indefinitely (a nice way to kill a measure without explicitly voting it down). I remember reading somewhere about some international treaty or armistice commission in which U.S. and Canadian delegates were discussing some idea both groups favored (actually, the Canadian group probably favoured the idea -- but the Americans heard them wrong and thought they said they favored it :-}). Anyway, the U.S. delegation couldn't understand why the Canadians wanted to *table* the proposal in question if they thought it was such a good idea! ==> "hydro": Electric power provided by a utility company (e.g., "the hydro was out for three hours after the big storm the other night"). I assume the word arose because most of the electric power in Canada comes (or, at one time, came) from hydroelectric plants. This term isn't used in the States at all; most Americans would probably misinterpret it as referring to the water supply. ==> to "hork" (spelling uncertain): Apparently a slang expression meaning "to steal" -- though I would prefer to get a confirmation of this from a Canadian before adding it to my data. In the movie "Strange Brew", which I saw last night, Bob and Doug McKenzie used this word after playing a hockey match with inmates of an insane asylum, only to find later on that their clothes were gone when they returned to their lockers. (Some- thing like, "Hey! Those hosers horked our clothes, eh?") I tried looking this one up in the Gage Canadian Dictionary (which I picked up while at the Toronto USENIX conference in 1983), but couldn't find it. Maybe I heard it wrong; then again, this particular dictionary isn't very strong on obscure technical or slang expressions. Can anyone out there shed more light? A friend mentioned to me the other day about how he had heard a UNIX hacker from Canada talk about a "struct proke" (rhymes with "broke") in the kernel. Turns out he was talking about the good ol' "struct proc" (which, in the American mouth, rhymes with "crock" -- no value judgment implied :-}). "Proke" is an eminently reasonable verbal abbreviation for "process", *if* you pronounce this latter word as "proh-cess" (as do many Canadians, but virtually no Americans). My friend also said that his Canadian UNIX hacker acquaintance seems to have adopted the American pronunciation for "proc" now -- no doubt because no one had any idea *what* in the world a "proke" was. And, of course, my list of Canadian/American differences should have included the entry that started this whole discussion: Canadian usage American usage -------------- -------------- the U.S., the States America -- Rich Wales // UCLA Computer Science Department // +1 213-825-5683 3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, California 90024 // USA ARPA: wales@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU -or- wales@UCLA-LOCUS.ARPA UUCP: ...!(ucbvax,ihnp4)!ucla-cs!wales
edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) (12/23/85)
In article <1828@utcsri.UUCP> hogg@utcsri.UUCP (John Hogg) writes: >About the supposedly archetypical Canadianism "hoser": > >Until Doug and Bob Mackenzie appeared on the scene, I had never heard this >word before -- and I've lived here all my life. Furthermore, I could not >find anybody who knew its derivation. "One who hoses" sounds as good as I have a friend from upper Michigan who used it before Doug and Bob.
fred@mot.UUCP (Fred Christiansen) (12/27/85)
i've gotten a kick out of this discussion. while a Canadian by birth, i've spent most years elsewhere. so, i suspect what i speak is a mixture of many places, and am, in turn, woefully ignorant of many Canadianisms. which leads me to suggest that many "Americanisms" or "Canadianisms" which have already or may yet pop up are often really regionalisms. whatever, these are equally or even more interesting. now, i have a question about accents. are there really any Canadians that pronounce "about" as "a-boot"? frequently, people will identify me as Canadian because i just said "a-boot". i ask them to listen again, carefully, and then they notice that it's not "aboot", but a clipped-vowel-sound "a-bowht" (a good sound rep??) rather than the drawn out vowel sound that i hear Americans use. -- << Generic disclaimer >> Fred Christiansen ("Canajun, eh?") @ Motorola Microsystems, Tempe, AZ UUCP: {seismo!terak, trwrb!flkvax, utzoo!mnetor, ihnp4}!mot!fred ARPA: oakhill!mot!fred@ut-sally.ARPA "Families are Forever"
mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) (12/28/85)
In the States, I once ordered "Brown Toast" with breakfast, and got toasted white bread. When I complained, the waitress said "All toast is brown if it's cooked enough." I should have ordered "Whole wheat toast." -- Martin Taylor {allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt {uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsri!dciem!mmt
ludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) (01/01/86)
In article <8086@ucla-cs.ARPA> wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (Rich Wales) writes: >It might be instructive (even amusing) to take this chance to try and >put together a list of some of the more common Americanisms/Canadianisms >which are liable to confuse people from the opposite side of the border. Here are a few more: Canadian usage American usage -------------- -------------- route (pronounced "root") (pronounced to rhyme with "out") hawk (hock?) [slang]: to steal deke (out) [hockey slang] to fake (out) (an opponent) When I was in elementary school, we were usually taught British spellings ("centre", "programme, " etc.) but with the odd Americanism ("jail", "connection", "curb" instead of "gaol", "connexion", "kerb"). Final -ize tended to be preferred over -ise. Newspapers and magazines tend to use all American speellings, probably because they're shorter (one "national" newspaper even uses "cigaret"). For many things, we use the American words rather than British (I'm sure that someone referring to a "lift" (elevator) or "boot/wing of a car" (trunk/finder) would get funny looks. On the other hand, "spanner" seems to be generally understood as a "non-adjustable wrench"). This reminds me of when I was looking for a job of teaching English in Japan. Everyone wanted to learn "American English" and they weren't sure what Canadian English was. After getting over my nationalistic indignation, I explained that Canadian English was very similar to what Americans use on TV, but less nasal. This seemed to satisfy them. Anyway, my classes responded with howls of laughter when I explained the difference between Candian "eh?" and American "huh?" (from my British grandmother: "Don't say 'eh', say 'wot' like your father"). Whilst in Japan, it took me a while to realise that "American" (actually "Amerika-jin") wasn't meant as an insult, it just meant "white foreigner"). There exist a couple of books (I don't know the publisher/author) called "Canajan, eh" and "Murrican, huh" which contain many of the distinctive speech patterns of the two groups. -- -- Peter Ludemann ludemann@ubc-cs.uucp (ubc-vision!ubc-cs!ludemann) ludemann@cs.ubc.cdn (ludemann@cs.ubc.cdn@ubc.mailnet) ludemann@ubc.csnet (ludemann%ubc.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA)
franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) (01/04/86)
In article <129@ubc-cs.UUCP> ludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) writes: > Canadian usage American usage > -------------- -------------- > route (pronounced "root") (pronounced to rhyme with "out") Which pronunciation of "root" did you have in mind? Some people pronounce it to rhyme with "boot"; others rhyme it with "soot". The pronunciation of "route" to rhyme with "boot" is not a pure Canadianism, in any case; I have heard it quite often in the U.S. Frank Adams ihpn4!philabs!pwa-b!mmintl!franka Multimate International 52 Oakland Ave North E. Hartford, CT 06108
kay@warwick.UUCP (Kay Dekker) (01/05/86)
In article <907@psivax.UUCP> friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) writes: > Hmmm, sounds like Canadian English is a lot closer to British >English than to "American" English, several of these are match the >British usage. Even 'riding' meaning district is found in England, at >least in northern England, where York is divided into three ridings. Not *quite* accurate, but pretty near; prior to the Conservative government's county boundary shuffle in the early 70's, YorkSHIRE was divided into three parts: the North, East and West Ridings. 'Riding' is from the Old English 'thriding' [Old Norse 'thridhjungr', a third part; Yorkshire was settled several times by the Danes]. York itself (which lay centrally to the Ridings) was not *in* any of them, but lay in an ara known as the Ansty [can't remember the derivation of this offhand]. Kay. -- This .signature void where prohibited by law ...ukc!warwick!kay
suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) (01/07/86)
> Canadian usage American usage > -------------- -------------- > route (pronounced "root") (pronounced to rhyme with "out") I have never been to Canada. And I have always pronounced route as "root". I believe the pronunciation is regional, rather than national. I grew up in Texas, and lived there until I graduated from college. Since then I've lived all over. I've heard both pronunciations from Americans. Is this also true of Canadians? Do they pronounce route both as "root" and to rime with "out"? -- Merry Christmas! Suzanne Barnett-Scott uucp: ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division 14151 N 76th Street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260 (602) 998-4800
kort@hounx.UUCP (B.KORT) (01/12/86)
I once had an apartment-mate from Red Deer, Alberta (somewhere in "the wilds of Canada"). As I learned it from him, Canadians go "oot and aboot and spend their dohlers." Canadian sports enthusiasts love to go to "tornaments." --Barry Kort
ray@othervax.UUCP (Raymond D. Dunn) (01/13/86)
In article <965@terak.UUCP> suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) writes: >.... >Is this also true of Canadians? Do they pronounce route both >as "root" and to rime with "out"? >.... They pronounce it as root, but of course they also spell rhyme correctly! Ray Dunn. ..philabs!micomvax!othervax!ray [acclaimer: this is supposed to be humourous, not a spelling flame.] P.S. Why do we ALL pronounce ROUTER (the tool - same word derivation) to rhyme with OUTER.
ludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) (01/13/86)
In article <992@mmintl.UUCP> franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) writes: >In article <129@ubc-cs.UUCP> ludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) writes: >> Canadian usage American usage >> -------------- -------------- >> route (pronounced "root") (pronounced to rhyme with "out") > >Which pronunciation of "root" did you have in mind? Some people pronounce >it to rhyme with "boot"; others rhyme it with "soot". > >The pronunciation of "route" to rhyme with "boot" is not a pure Canadianism, >in any case; I have heard it quite often in the U.S. I pronounce "route" to rhyme with "boot". Where does the rhyming with "soot" come from (I've never heard it, although I have heard "roof" pronounced with the same vowel (American only))? While we're on the subject, a few more differences: - semi- Canadian "semee", American "sem-eye" - hero- Canadian "heero", American "heeeero" (I think I'm more sensitive than most people to the length of "long" vowels because I'm used to making such distinctions in Japanese). Generally, the Canadian pronounciations seem more in line with British pronounciation, taking into account vowel shifts between the accents. The American pronounciation seems to have more "exceptions". Incidentally, the Mackenzie brothers pronounciation seems to be a take-off on the Newfoundland accent - it's not common in the rest of the country. Apparently the Newfoundland accent preserves the original British accents so well that a person's ancestry can be traced to a particular Irish or English village just on how s/he pronounces certain words and what meaning s/he assigns to them. -- -- Peter Ludemann ludemann@ubc-cs.uucp (ubc-vision!ubc-cs!ludemann) ludemann@cs.ubc.cdn (ludemann@cs.ubc.cdn@ubc.mailnet) ludemann@ubc.csnet (ludemann%ubc.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA)
faunt@hplabs.UUCP (Doug Faunt) (01/14/86)
> Canadian usage American usage > -------------- -------------- > route (pronounced "root") (pronounced to rhyme with "out") > As used on the famous Canadian song and TV show, "Route 66"? -- ....!hplabs!faunt faunt@hplabs.ARPA HP is not responsible for anything I say here. In fact, what I say here may have been generated by a noisy telephone line.
ivester@amc.UUCP (Paul Ivester) (01/16/86)
>In article <965@terak.UUCP> suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) writes: >>Is this also true of Canadians? Do they pronounce route both >>as "root" and to rime with "out"? In article <750@othervax.UUCP> ray@othervax.UUCP (Raymond D. Dunn) writes: >They pronounce it as root... Yes, but do you pronounce the vowel in root as in boot or as in book? Around Seattle, most people pronounce it as in book, though it often can vary with context.
suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) (01/16/86)
> In article <965@terak.UUCP> suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) writes: > >.... > >Is this also true of Canadians? Do they pronounce route both > >as "root" and to rime with "out"? > >.... > > They pronounce it as root, but of course they also spell rhyme correctly! > > Ray Dunn. ..philabs!micomvax!othervax!ray > > [acclaimer: this is supposed to be humourous, not a spelling flame.] > > P.S. Why do we ALL pronounce ROUTER (the tool - same word derivation) to > rhyme with OUTER. Of course, "rime" is in the dictionary, as is "rhyme" which is I'm sure the prefered spelling. I just like doing some things a bit different. (For example, I'm an American who puts a "u" in colour and crosses my sevens.) Remember the rather well known _Rime_Of_The_Ancient_Mariner_ ? -- Suzanne Barnett-Scott uucp: ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division 14151 N 76th Street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260 (602) 998-4800
suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) (01/16/86)
> In article <992@mmintl.UUCP> franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) writes: > >In article <129@ubc-cs.UUCP> ludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) writes: > >> Canadian usage American usage > >> -------------- -------------- > >> route (pronounced "root") (pronounced to rhyme with "out") > > > >Which pronunciation of "root" did you have in mind? Some people pronounce > >it to rhyme with "boot"; others rhyme it with "soot". > > > >The pronunciation of "route" to rhyme with "boot" is not a pure Canadianism, > >in any case; I have heard it quite often in the U.S. > > I pronounce "route" to rhyme with "boot". Where does the rhyming with > "soot" come from (I've never heard it, although I have heard "roof" > pronounced with the same vowel (American only))? > It isn't the word "route" that is sometimes rimed with "soot". It is the word "root" (you know, the part of a plant that grows below the ground). I would have said it is pronounced closer to "rut", but on reflection, that which I've heard is somewhere between the vowel sound in soot and that in rut. That was the way a high scholl friend and her mother pronounced it. They were originally from Missouri, I think, but I don't know if that is where they got that pronunciation, or if it came from somewhere else they'd lived. -- Suzanne Barnett-Scott uucp: ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division 14151 N 76th Street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260 (602) 998-4800
stu16@whuxl.UUCP (SMITH) (01/24/86)
In Norfolk, Va. in the very early 50s - out oot boot but salad gerns roof ruf root rut route rut house hoose mouse moose (There's moose in the hoose! Get it oot!) Being a native Manhattanite, it took a while before I could make sense out of the accent. Also, a fire engine became a fahrnjn. Then of course there's the Down East proununciations: park pack car caar smart smaat -- whuxl!stu16