clive@druri.UUCP (StewardCN) (02/07/86)
A further note: In Korean and Japanese, I believe nearly as true in Chinese, there is _no_ differentiation of the sounds we think of as R or L. It is one sound, which changes from very strong L to nearing an R depending on what sounds are around it. Try saying R and moving your whole tongue straight back just a little -- you'll find you have an L very quickly. In Korean, there is only one letter for this; looks like: ---------- | ---------- | ---------- Sorry it's too big. In pronouncing this as an alphabet name, they say (something like) reeool, to show it's range of transition. Japanese hasn't a phonemic alphabet (two kinds of syllable ones, though), and I don't think they can write the sound alone. As a footnote, English speakers generally can't distinguish _any_ of the o-u range vowels in Korean with reliability at all, not to mention the several values they find in what we think are one consonant. Might give an idea just how much trouble it is, and almost everyone in those countries these days has pretty good English indeed. Clive Steward
edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) (02/08/86)
In article <56@druri.UUCP> clive@druri.UUCP (StewardCN) writes: Speaking about Japanese, and korean .... >Might give an idea just how much trouble it is, and almost everyone in >those countries these days has pretty good English indeed. Let me clarify "pretty good" in Mr Steward's above statement. You can probably get along without knowing any Japanese in one of the big cities like Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, Yokohama, Yokosuka. From personal experience getting by, is not all that fun. Sure you can go to McDonald's, Shakey's, Kentucky Fried, and so on. If you are bent on going to McDonald's and you can't find one, don't ask a Japanese, unless you know their pronunciation of the word (Makudonorodo, or something close). I still have trouble saying it, or so my Japanese friends tell me. What happens if you venture out of the main stream, into a small city. You enter another world. A world with signs, and symbols which will amaze and bewilder you. There are usually no recognizable characters. It isn't like going to France, or Spain or Germany. At least in one of those countries you can take out your trusty dictionary and look up a word character by character, and have a good chance of getting the correct word. My experience with the Japanese is that the younger people know some english (this is a pen, good morning, oh hello ..). Which they use quite freely. The Japanese are very embarassed about their english abilities, and would rather not use them. Again this is on the average, you can usually find some one who can speak enough english in a big city to help you. In school they study reading, and writing of english from teachers who themselves are no where near fluent in english. But hey, go to Japan at least once. (But then again I think it should be required for every one to spend at least two years in the Military.) mark