CMP.WERNER@UTEXAS-20.ARPA (08/24/84)
From: Werner Uhrig <CMP.WERNER@UTEXAS-20.ARPA> At the local 'junk-movie-station' they played a boring movie tonite STRATEGIC AIR COMMAND (1955) James Stewart, June Allyson. A baseball player is forced to give up his career to serve active duty with the U.S. Air Force. However, it had some remarkable footage of a plane I don't remember ever seeing before. The B-36 bomber, used by SAC in the post-war years. This weird contraption had 6 prop-engines, 3 mounted on each wing in push-position, plus 4 jet-engines, a pair of each mounted close to the wing-tip extending FORWARD (!!!). The jets seemed to have been used only during certain maneuvers, like to generate sufficient take-off power - still looked like it wouldn't make it to get off the ground. Does anyone know if any such planes are still in existence, in a museum, or even in flyable condition? The plane looks like a Russian conspiracy designed to wipe out the US Air Force in one accident after the other. Does anyone know any stories, references to books, mag-articles? In the movie, our hero was promoted to then fly the "new" B-49", "a plane with wings so smooth that the mechanics had to wear special soft-soled shoes to walk on them". I can't recommend to watch the movie, the cold-war 'Schmaltz' is gut-wrecking, but video-taping and selectively watching the flying action is wonderful. Let me plug another of my favorite programs here. PBS in it's series has some wonderful classics. In particular be on the look-out on one titled 'The Flying Wing' - a sad story of how a revolutionary design with great potential was destroyed in the 'back-rooms'. The flying in the documentary makes you want to run to the airport and take off. BTW, that one I caught on tape (if someone is REALLY curious ....) " There is still hope. Humans may grow wings one day ..." -------
tackett@wivax.UUCP (Raymond Tackett) (08/27/84)
Love that nostalgia! For those of you aren't old enough to remember
piston engines, the B-36 was originally all piston powered. The jets
were added to the B-36D.
The B-36 was used as "mother ship" to some other aircraft. At one
time there was a specially built fighter which could be launched and
maybe even retrieved via the bomb bay. This was an early answer to
the relative useleness of .50 caliber turrets against jet fighters.
The experiment was also tried with an F-84 Thunderjet, although the
wings protruded from under the B-36 fuselage.
Some years later, a B-36D was used to transport a B-58 Hustler
(supersonic delta wing bomber). The props had to be removed from the
inboard engines to clear the B-58 wings. Anybody remember why this
was done? I seem to remember B-58's flying under their own power without
air launch.
You can see a B-36 and lots of other exciting goodies at the Air Force
Museum, Wright-Patterson AFB, Fairborn, Ohio (near Dayton). Anybody
know if the Confederate Air Force has one?
P.S. The new bomber in the movie was the Boeing B-47. The B-49 was the
jet powered flying wing. There was also a propeller driven flying wing
in the B-3x range -- B-35 I think.
--
Random Access is IMMORAL!
Ray Tackettgmm@bunker.UUCP (Gregory M. Mandas) (08/27/84)
[] Werner, The B-36 was built right after WW II to be the first long range bommer. The Wright Patterson Air Force Base Museum has a B-36 in static exhibit. Several other static exhibits are placed under the wings of the B-36. The thing is big, very big. The jets were added during flight testing to get the thing off the ground. I believe they also have a B-46. Which is the plane I think you are refering to in the immortal "Stratigic Air Command". The B-46 was quickly outdated by the B-52. There are none on exhibit at WPAFB, they need all the broken B-52's for parts. If you are interested in Flying history I suggust you spend a day or two in Dayton, Ohio. Birthplace of aviation and all that. If memory serves, the Air Force Meseum has: XB-70, X-15 Wright B Flyer (First military Wright plane) Mig (Korean vintage) Enola Gay Wright's first wind tunnel History of engines display (cut aways, so you can see inside) Several WW I planes. First Transworld plane B-17, B-26, B-36 F-86, F-101 A tiny jet called a Stinger (I think) that was designed to be carried on the B-36 and dropped to fly air defence and be pulled back into the B-36 when done. There is also a anex where you can see restorations taking place. The Musem book store is full of books and some great prints of aviation art. Dayton also has an Aviation Hall of Fame. You could call the Dayton Chamber of Commerce for full info. Greg Manda Ittvax!bunker!gmm
davew@shark.UUCP (Dave Williams) (08/27/84)
The B-36 and B-36B were SAC's first line aircraft between the B-29 and the B-47. It had 6 27 cylinder Pratt and Whitney engines that were the largest radial engines built. The B series had 4 jet engines in 2 pods at the end of each wing. These planes saw service in the Korean War. They had to have separate fuel systems for the jet and piston engines and were real maintainence nightmares ( how would you like to change 324 spark plugs?). I believe they were built by General Dynamics and were capable of flying great distances with a full ordinance load. They had a very unique sound to them that was sort of a low rumbling sound with a very pronounced doppler shift to it as it flew toward and away from you. There has got to be some of these around at the Wright-Patterson or Smithsonian Air Museums. I saw the Flying Wing fly on several occasions (I think its designation was XB-49, but I could be mistaken.) It looked like a boomerang in the air when it banked into a turn. I also remember seeing the smaller prop driven wings when I was a child. As I recall there was a 2 engine and 4 engine model, one painted green and the other red. All Flying Wings, to my knowledge, were built by Jack Northrup. The Air Force felt the "wings" did not make good bombing platforms as they were somewhat erratic in straight line flight. Rumor has it that Stelth Bomber designs are very similar to the wing as it presents the least radar reflective shape.
jdb@mordor.UUCP (John Bruner) (08/27/84)
I recall seeing the B-36 at the National Air and Space Museum (I think that's the correct name) in Dayton, OH. The bomb bay was opened so that visitors could stand underneath and look up into it. My memory is a little faulty, but as I recall, the accompaning description stated that it was originally designed with the six pusher-prop engines and that the four jet engines were added later to provide additional performance. -- John Bruner (S-1 Project, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory) MILNET: jdb@mordor.ARPA [jdb@s1-c] (415) 422-0758 UUCP: ...!ucbvax!dual!mordor!jdb ...!decvax!decwrl!mordor!jdb
stevel@haddock.UUCP (08/28/84)
#R:sri-arpa:-1277700:haddock:9800002:000:706 haddock!stevel Aug 27 10:49:00 1984 > Let me plug another of my favorite programs here. PBS in it's series > has some wonderful classics. In particular be on the look-out on one > titled 'The Flying Wing' - a sad story of how a revolutionary design > with great potential was destroyed in the 'back-rooms'. The flying in the > documentary makes you want to run to the airport and take off. > BTW, that one I caught on tape (if someone is REALLY curious ....) Is there a PBS series on flying????? Please let me know. Steve Ludlum, decvax!yale-co!ima!stevel, {amd70|ihnp4!cbosgd}!ima!stevel decwrl!amd70!ima!stevel, {uscvax|ucla-vax|vortex}!ism780!stevel Interactive Systems, 7th floor, 441 Stuart st, Boston, MA 02116; 617-247-1155
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (08/28/84)
The National Air and Space Museum is part of the Smithsonian Institution in Washington. That thing in Dayton is for the Air Force. -Ron
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (08/29/84)
I'll take a stab at the B-36 name -- my guess: Stratofortress. (or was that the B-29?...) PS -- Love this sort of discussion; this is one of the most enjoyable groups to read... Will
gmv@petfe.UUCP (08/30/84)
<>
The B-36 did exist! (and was replaced by the B-47 and, finally, the B-52).
The jet engines were added to the original design, almost as an afterthought.
The Confederate Air Force has one and I think it either flys, or they
are restoring it to flying condition.
The B-36 was our post-WWII heavy bomber, designed to carry our atomic
bombs into the face (or whatever) of the enemy. Remember
the 1950's and early 60's "Air Raid" drills? (No? Well ask someone
over 30...). These drills were because the only threat of enemy attack
(at the time) was by bomber. I never did figure out how hiding my
face could save my ass :-). Ours bomber was the B-36 and the Russians had
theirs (I forget it's name).
Today the Russians still have a massive propeller-driven bomber which
can be seen, on occasion, in Aviation Week.
There are several books on the B-36, none of which I can remember right
now. Sport'y Pilot Shop (Ohio) has a good selection of books on
aviation history. Also see if your local library has any "Janes All The
Worlds Aircraft" from the 1950's or 1960's. This would, at least, give
some useful info. If you have an older encyclopedia, it might have an
article on the B-36.
Don't ya just l-o-v-e them oldie movies???
-----
George Verbosh, Perkin-Elmer
...{vax135, pesnta}!petsd!petfe!gmvcfiaime@ihnp4.UUCP (Jeff Williams) (08/30/84)
There are still (I believe) three B-36 aircraft in existance. One is at Ft. Worth, Texas, one at Chanute AFB, Illinois, and the last at the U. S. Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio. In 1972, the Air Force sold TWO of these rare machines for scrap. There is a group that is trying to get permission to fly the Ft. Worth aircraft, and they are actually restoring it (or were about 4 years ago). As for the movie "Strategic Air Command," the new airplane was the Boeing B-47, the first swept-wing jet bomber in the USAF. The reference to the B-49 was probably a slip of the digit. Jeff Williams AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Ill ihnp4!cfiaime
jpg@sdchema.UUCP (09/01/84)
> I'll take a stab at the B-36 name -- my guess: Stratofortress. > (or was that the B-29?...) > PS -- Love this sort of discussion; this is one of the most > enjoyable groups to read... I'm pretty sure that the Stratofortress was the B-29 (the unsuccessful civilian airliner version was called the Stratoliner). This is a wild guess but I think that the B-36 was nicknamed the flying cigar. Pilot: "We're out of gas" Passenger: "How long will we be stuck up here?" Jerry Greenberg
ken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow) (09/05/84)
-- >> At the local 'junk-movie-station' they played a boring movie tonite >> STRATEGIC AIR COMMAND (1955) James Stewart, June Allyson. >> A baseball player is forced to give up his career to serve >> active duty with the U.S. Air Force. >> ...In the movie, our hero was promoted to then fly the "new" B-49", >> "a plane with wings so smooth that the mechanics had to wear special >> soft-soled shoes to walk on them". Yeah, a great period piece on the B-36. I think there are a few around yet. Doesn't the Confederate Air Force (that's what they call themselves, they show up at the EAA fly-ins in Oshkosh) have one that's operational? It wasn't a "new B-49", by the way, it was the B-47, which I believe was the US's 1st all-jet bomber, and was superseded only by the B-52. Didn't you build the plastic model when you were a kid? I guess it depends on when you were a kid. -- *** *** JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** ***** ****** ****** 29 Aug 84 [12 Fructidor An CXCII] ken perlow ***** ***** (312)979-7261 ** ** ** ** ..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken *** ***
Carter@RUTGERS.ARPA (09/05/84)
From: _Bob <Carter@RUTGERS.ARPA>
From: decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdchema!jpg at Ucb-Vax.arpa
> I'll take a stab at the B-36 name -- my guess: Stratofortress.
> (or was that the B-29?...)
> PS -- Love this sort of discussion; this is one of the most
> enjoyable groups to read...
I'm pretty sure that the Stratofortress was the B-29 (the unsuccessful
civilian airliner version was called the Stratoliner). This is a wild
guess but I think that the B-36 was nicknamed the flying cigar.
B-17 := Flying Fortress
B-29 := Superfortress
B-50 (essentially a re-engined Superfortress, too late for combat)
:= Stratofortress
B-36 := Peacekeeper (Read this list, this was on last week.)
_Bdsmith@hplabsc.UUCP (David Smith) (09/10/84)
B-17 := Flying Fortress
B-29 := Superfortress
B-50 (essentially a re-engined Superfortress, too late for combat)
:= Stratofortress
B-36 := Peacekeeper (Read this list, this was on last week.)
Let's try
B-29 := Superfortress
B-50 := Superfortress
B-52 := Stratofortresswmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (09/10/84)
There have been several mentions so far of the B-58 Hustler. I always admired the looks of that aircraft, and never understood why it was scrapped so soon while the B-52 continued in use indefinitely. Does anyone out there know any details about what the problems were with the B-58, and/or any interesting stories regarding them? If so, please post! (By the way, for the movie/aviation buffs out there -- I recall seeing shots of a B-58 in the movie "Fail Safe"; anybody recall any other movies where this aircraft appeared?) Will
dsmith@hplabsc.UUCP (David Smith) (09/14/84)
Does anyone out there know any details about what the problems
were with the B-58, and/or any interesting stories regarding
them? If so, please post!
Back in 1976 there was an issue of AIRPOWER devoted to the B-58. The
reasons cited for its demise were
1. The downing of Gary Powers in his U-2 indicated that bombers
were not safe at high altitude. The B-52, with wing strengthening,
could penetrate at low altitude. The B-58, with much less range
than a B-52, could not accept the high fuel consumption entailed
by a long low-level penetration run.
2. The B-58 may have stretched technology a little too far. It was
hot and difficult to fly, and was feared by its crews. Several
crashed because of control reversal. (The controls worked as usual,
but in some flight regimes, the aerodynamics caused an effect
opposite to that intended. Other planes experience this in
(conditions leading to) a spin, but it was particularly bad in
the B-58.)
3. It was replaced by the F-111 (no jokes, please).
I once saw a B-58 take off. It was impressive. Much hotter than an F-100,
comparable to an F-106.