dvs@hpfclo.UUCP (dvs) (10/08/84)
I would certainly agree that the phrase "no joy" comes from military jargon. I've heard the phrase quite often when issuing traffic, both for avoidance and intercepts, to military (usually fighter/recky) pilots. If they don't see the traffic that has been issued they say "no joy". On the other hand, if they see the traffic they often respond with, "tallyho". As for how and in what context the astronauts use the phrase "no joy" I'm not certain. Dan Simula Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Systems Division
rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe) (10/08/84)
Does anyone know the origin and meaning of the phrase "no joy"? I have heard
it now from three astronauts on separate occasions. I think I heard it also
on "Call to Glory" so I am guessing it came from military pilot jargon and
made its way into NASA. I also think it probably means "no success". If
anyone has further details on how the phrase came about, please fill me in.
Why didn't Tom Wolfe have this in "The Right Stuff"? (or did I miss it?)
--
"It's only by NOT taking the human race seriously that I retain what
fragments of my once considerable mental powers I still possess."
Roger Noe ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoedwight@timeb.UUCP (Dwight Ernest) (10/09/84)
Concerning the origin of the phrase, "no joy," which I've heard on various civil aviation radio frequencies where it seems to mean, "I don't have the traffic in sight," I think it means exactly that, and that's where it has its origin... fighter pilots, reputed to be the famed macho warriors, unlike their portrayal as sensitive, caring husbands, fathers, and lovers as in "Call to Glory" (a show I enjoy a great deal, incidentally), are SUPPOSED to get a great deal of "joy," you see, upon sighting their quarry as pointed out to them by sighters and ground and airborne radar operators... therefore, from the radio call, "no joy," we can surmise they haven't sighted the b*st*rds yet. I think it's just carried over into civil aviation, where all pilots (at least those I know) enjoy emulating their heroes (in such ways as adopting a pseudo-Texan accent, like that of the hero of "Right Stuff") whether they have a military background or not. I think. -- --Dwight Ernest KA2CNN \ Usenet:...vax135!timeinc!dwight Time Inc. Editorial Technology Group, New York City Voice: (212) 554-5061 \ Compuserve: 70210,523 \ EIES: 1228 Telemail: EDPISG/TIMEINC \ MCI: DERNEST
markb@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Mark Biggar) (10/09/84)
In article <586@ihlts.UUCP> rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe) writes: >Does anyone know the origin and meaning of the phrase "no joy"? I have heard >it now from three astronauts on separate occasions. I think I heard it also >on "Call to Glory" so I am guessing it came from military pilot jargon and >made its way into NASA. I also think it probably means "no success". If >anyone has further details on how the phrase came about, please fill me in. >Why didn't Tom Wolfe have this in "The Right Stuff"? (or did I miss it?) Probably short for "There's no joy in mudville" from the poem "Casey at the bat". Mark Biggar {allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,akgua,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!markb
tggsu@resonex.UUCP (Tom Gulvin Root) (10/10/84)
Let's see... I think that 'No Joy' means that no target was aquired during a search operation by a fighter pilot (scenario: Ground controller: 'target .5 km ahead, angels 45'. Pilot: 'No joy'). Others that I've read about: 'Tally Ho!' - In general, used to mark fighter responsibilities among wingmen and to acknowledge an attack order. I recall that some fighter competitions were called 'tally ho' in the '60s or '70s. 'Below bingo' - condition of a thirsty fighter prior to air refueling. (does anyone know what 'bingo' means?). Does anyone else here watch ABC's "Call to Glory" TV show? They really seem to be making an effort at a quality series about life in the USAF test area in the '60s. Even though you almost always have to sit through each show's 'human interest' side, the flying and technical side of the series is miles (clicks?) ahead of anything recent. Come to think of it, even the 'human interest' side of each show is better than usual for TV - problems that almost might happen to normal people in everyday life. It's also just about they only series that includes a husband/wife relationship with children and daily problems and career struggles and neighbors and plausible plot lines and... Tom Gulvin - allegra!resonex!tggsu - Resonex, Inc. - Sunnyvale CA
scw@cepu.UUCP (10/10/84)
In article <1370@sdcrdcf.UUCP> markb@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Mark Biggar) writes: >In article <586@ihlts.UUCP> rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe) writes: >>Does anyone know the origin and meaning of the phrase "no joy"? I have heard >>it now from three astronauts[...] the phrase came about, please fill me in. >>Why didn't Tom Wolfe have this in "The Right Stuff"? (or did I miss it?) > >Probably short for "There's no joy in mudville" from the poem >"Casey at the bat". In his semi-biography the chap who was 'Cats Eye' Cunningham's R/O (Radar Operator) (Cunningham was the most successful British night-fighter pilot) reports that the phrase was in use as early as 1941 in the RAF. Other inreresting items in ths book are: Because the AI (Airborne Intercept) equipment was *SOO* top secret it was refered to as the 'thing'. Early Radar sets were very unreliable, and RAF slang for broken is/was 'bent'. Imagine if you will a plotting room full of WAFs and a voice comes over the speaker (RAF accents please) Control: Hello Blue 2, you are in position now, flash your thing. [pause of several min. ] Blue 2: Hello, Control, Blue 2 calling, no joy, returning to base. Ctrl: Hello, Blue 2, why are you returning? B 2: Hello control, my thing is bent. -- Stephen C. Woods (VA Wadsworth Med Ctr./UCLA Dept. of Neurology) uucp: { {ihnp4, uiucdcs}!bradley, hao, trwrb, sdcrdcf}!cepu!scw ARPA: cepu!scw@ucla-cs location: N 34 3' 9.1" W 118 27' 4.3"
scw@cepu.UUCP (Stephen C. Woods) (10/11/84)
In article <177@resonex.UUCP> tggsu@resonex.UUCP (Tom Gulvin Root) writes: >Let's see... I think that 'No Joy' means that no target was aquired during a >search operation by a fighter pilot (scenario: Ground controller: >'target .5 km ahead, angels 45'. Pilot: 'No joy'). > >Others that I've read about: > 'Tally Ho!' - In general, used to mark fighter responsibilities > among wingmen and to acknowledge an attack order. > I recall that some fighter competitions were called > 'tally ho' in the '60s or '70s. Also to indicate to the ground controller or other A/C that a target has been spotted. (The inverse of 'no joy'). > 'Below bingo' - condition of a thirsty fighter prior to air > refueling. (does anyone know what 'bingo' means?). Yes, a light comes on indicating that there is less that n (for some small n) min of fuel remaining. > >Does anyone else here watch ABC's "Call to Glory" TV show? They really seem >to be making an effort at a quality series about life in the USAF test >area in the '60s. Even thoug[...]ries that includes a husband/wife >relationship with children and daily problems and career struggles and >neighbors and plausible plot lines and... I got turned off on this show by the add during the Olympics. Guess I'll have to take a shot at it. Another term that I just remembered is 'Winchester', used by ground attack aircraft to indicate that they have expended all of their ordanace. Musk-ox 8 (FAC): Roger Boxcar 1, that really cleaned their clocks. I got another target for ya. Boxcar 1 (F4D): Sorry Muskox, Boxcar 1&2 are RTB, Winchester. Mx 8: OK Boxcar 1, thanks for the show. Boxcar 3, Muskox 8, over. BC 3 (Leader of next flight): Roger Muskox, We're at FL 300, be down in 3, 2 F4s, wall to wall snakes, send your target, over. Snakes are Snake-Eyes a general purpose 250 Lb bomb with high drag fins added to aid in low altitude delivery (sorta keeps the plane from getting blown up by its own bomb). -- Stephen C. Woods (VA Wadsworth Med Ctr./UCLA Dept. of Neurology) uucp: { {ihnp4, uiucdcs}!bradley, hao, trwrb, sdcrdcf}!cepu!scw ARPA: cepu!scw@ucla-cs location: N 34 3' 9.1" W 118 27' 4.3"
hutch@shark.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) (10/11/84)
< Illiterates of the wurld yunaite > Excerpting from the famous poem... Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright, The band is playing somewhere and somewhere hearts are light, And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere chilren shout, But there is no joy in Mudville - mighty Casey has struck out. (No, sorry, the source I quote from doesn't include the name of the author.) Hutch (speculatively)
markb@orca.UUCP (10/12/84)
In reply to Tom Gulvin's question about the meaning of "below bingo"... Bingo, with respect to military avaition, does not refer to the popular VFW or church game. Bingo is the state determined by the amount of fuel remaining, aircraft altitude and distance to the nearest usable runway which insures a safe landing with an extremely small safety margin. A term which goes along with this is "bingo profile". Military tactical aircraft have recommended high performance climb, endurance power settings, and descent profiles based on aircraft drag, fuel left, head/tail wind and range to the bingo field. At bingo you fly the bingo profile to make it to the bingo field. (I love redundancy!) Below bingo is a state no pilot wants to be in (experience speaking). It's a terrible feeling being on your Nth + 1 pass of the carrier deck (having missed the wire N times - or bolter), no bingo field (i.e., 1000+ miles out to sea), a pitching deck, and no moon out. It's moments like this where the next thing you ask the ship for is "tanker posit!" Mark T. Bell (ex USN NFO - A6E B/N) UUCP: ...!tektronix!orca!markb CSNET: orca!markb@tektronix ARPA: orca!markb.tektronix@rand-relay USMail: M/S 61-183 Tektronix, Inc. P.O. Box 1000 Wilsonville, OR 97070
werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) (10/15/84)
> civil aviation, where all pilots (at least those I know) enjoy emulating > their heroes (in such ways as adopting a pseudo-Texan accent, like that > of the hero of "Right Stuff") whether they have a military background > or not. > > I think. Well one thing is true. It is not a pseudo-Texas accent. It is from West Virginia (read "The Right Stuff" book by Tom Wolfe), and based almost completely on the voice of the first man to break the sound barrier. -- Craig Werner !philabs!aecom!werner What do you expect? Watermelons are out of season!
rcmcc@whuxi.UUCP (MC_CONNELL) (10/18/84)
The "Pseudo-Texan" and West Virginian accent/dialect are basically the same. The so-called South Midland dialect is spoken from the Applachian mountains in Pennsylvania down through West Virginia, Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee and on down into Texas. I'm from southwestern Virginia, near Tennessee, West Virginia and Kentucky, and I'm often taken for a Texan by those familiar with the speech pattern. Ron McConnell, Bell Communications Research, whuxi!rcmcc