normb@tekred.UUCP (Norm Babcock ) (10/31/84)
I'd like some opinions re departure stalls. Whenever I
fly with a CFI in order to get checked out for rental
purposes, eventually we get to the point where I'm flat
on my back, looking at a bunch of blue (or gray) sky, with
the a/c feeling as if it's balanced on its tail, and ready
to recover when ready. In real life, I'm supposed to be
unaware of such an extreme attitude until the a/c quits
flying, and I find myself in a nose down attitude, not
knowing how I got there. The purpose of the drill is to make
sure I can recover.
I question the validity of this procedure. It's great fun,
and with a little practice you can start a spin entry and
check the nerves of the CFI. (Light planes only, in one
you know, and at altitude, please. I'd hate to lose a net
buddy.) I'd think it would be of greater merit to stall in
a more normal climb attitude, or approach attitude. It may
be that a heavier a/c stalls at a much lower nose attitude
and is much more sudden and vicious, (150s and 172s take
forever), and you'd never get to such extreme attitudes
before the bottom drops out. Has anyone stalled the heavy
stuff?
Incidentally, in a movie I saw a biplane make a strafing run
on the bad guys, pull up to vertical at the end, kick the rudder
at the top (just before stall?), and the a/c pivoted (still
nose up),returned to level flight, and was ready to make another
run. What is this maneuver? Is it as simple as it looks?
Normaaronf@azure.UUCP (Aaron Friend) (11/01/84)
I wonder if you may be describing a old navy manuver called the Vertical Reversment. In this manuver you enter a stall from a very steep climbing turn, as the a/c stalls you kick in top rudder forcing a spin from over the top. As soon as the a/c enters the spin you start recovery. If all goes well you will do one of the fastest 180's you have ever seen. If you screw up, you will have a thrill. Aaron Friend Tektronix MDP
marcum@rhino.UUCP (Alan M. Marcum) (11/02/84)
> I'd like some opinions re departure stalls.... > ...I'm flat > on my back, looking at a bunch of blue (or gray) sky, with > the a/c feeling as if it's balanced on its tail.... > Norm One instructor showed me that if you ease into a stall, gently, letting airspeed drop slowly, you'll stall without that nose-up attitude. Just let the airspeed catch up to the back side of the power curve. An interesting exercise: at cruise power, pull back on the stick a bit to enter a climb. Continue pulling back GRADUALLY, letting the airspeed bleed (yes, you'll climb). If y ou keep pulling back, you'll reach a point where, with cruise (or perhaps, now, climb or max.) power, you'll be flying level, on the back side of the power curve. Note your attitude, the airspeed, and the control response. Also note what happens when you pull back on the stick a bit more. Great way to get a real feel for all the graphs and theory! -- Alan M. Marcum Fortune Systems, Redwood City, California ...!{ihnp4, ucbvax!amd, hpda, sri-unix, harpo}!fortune!rhino!marcum
mp@u1100a.UUCP (Mike A Pilla) (11/02/84)
The turn-around maneuver is called either a stall turn or a hammerhead stall
depending upon whether you had a military/british/civvie instructor. It is
a beautiful maneuver; almost simplicity itself provided you do not let it
develop into a tail-slide.
As far as departure stalls go, many pilots encounter this maneuver right
after takeoff in IMC, there you do not have the blue sky confronting you.
Yes, you can get into a spin but any instructor worth his/her salt knows
what will happenby by looking at the "ball". I have taught this maneuver
in a Mooney and it can be deadly because some students panic when the
rotation starts, leaving the power on. Needless to say, in a Mooney,
airspeed builds up quite fast. Furthermore, anything more than one turn
in a Mooney is generally non-recoverable (yes, I know, use the door).
--
Michael Pilla
Bell Communications Research
201-981-7290
{ihnp4,allegra,pyuxww}!u1100a!mpcfiaime@ihnp4.UUCP (Jeff Williams) (11/05/84)
As we all learned as student pilots, you can stall an airplane at any airspeed, and in any attitude. Demonstration: slow the airplane down and begin descending with a nose down attitude. A good option is full flaps, no power, and 1.2 Vs0 (dirty stall). You are now suspiciously in a landing configuration. Gently bring the nose up to level and watch what happens. Stall. If you are flying an aerobatic airplane, try to stall on the backside of a loop. One thing to remember is not to let the airplane spin if it is not certified for spins. If the airplane is in normal category, it has been tested for a one turn spin. In aerobatic category, a six turn spin. In utility category, either a one turn or six turn spin, depending on the manufacturer and design. A rule of thumb is if it is a utility category or normal category airplane with the one turn spin certification, begin the recovery RIGHT NOW. There are horror stories of people who spun the American Yankee (aka. Grumman AA1 series). Of course, if you really want to experience a stall, you need to fly a Funk... Jeff Williams AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, Ill ihnp4!cfiaime
scw@cepu.UUCP (11/06/84)
In article <142@tekred.UUCP> normb@tekred.UUCP (Norm Babcock ) writes: > >Incidentally, in a movie I saw a biplane make a strafing run >on the bad guys, pull up to vertical at the end, kick the rudder >at the top (just before stall?), and the a/c pivoted (still >nose up),returned to level flight, and was ready to make another >run. What is this maneuver? Is it as simple as it looks? (Begin war story) When I was in 'Nam the OV-10's that used to support us used a similar manuver when attacking ground targets, they'd make a run, pull up into a hammerhead stall and then make a run in the reverse direction. A feature of the A/C that helped them to do this was the fact that it's a twin engine (turbo-prop), what they did was to pull the pitch control back on one engine just as they were ready to pitch over (really wipped around there). The B-57 (Canabera) a twin engine jet was capable of doing about 2-3 rotations around its yaw axis by a similar operation. -- Stephen C. Woods (VA Wadsworth Med Ctr./UCLA Dept. of Neurology) uucp: { {ihnp4, uiucdcs}!bradley, hao, trwrb}!cepu!scw ARPA: cepu!scw@ucla-cs location: N 34 3' 9.1" W 118 27' 4.3"