levy@trsvax.UUCP (12/13/84)
(from trsvax!levy) Well, I don't know 'bout the pros, but I'd have read my manual and noted that the published crosswind component limitation on the 150 (and presumably the 152) is around 16mph. Then I would have considered that Cessna published that figure for an experienced pilot (to me, that's over 1500 hrs) and that their figure didn't take into account gusting or turbulence. Then I would have asked for a different runway. If I positively HAD to land in such a high, gusting crosswind, I'd probably do about what you did (i.e. clean and a bit faster than usual) but maybe a little slower, 'cause a clean 150 in ground effect at 80mph will float forever; and it's while slowing before touchdown that gusts can eat one's lunch. I've seen a technique that involves flying the aircraft onto the runway at around 70 mph -- no flare or deceleration -- and then romping all over the brakes, but aside from one try with an instructor years ago I've never tried it. Incidentally, the sudden high rate of descent you mention is generally caused by getting the aircraft out of trim trying to stay lined up with the runway in a crosswind, aggravated by extra drag when large control displacements are used. Also, it is possible (I've been told) for a strong gust to actually blow your ground-effect cushion right out from under the aircraft.
paul@ctvax.UUCP (12/14/84)
Well, I can remember similar days as a student. All I can remember
is that one day such experiences ended -- don't know why or how,
but i'm sure they will dissapear for you too, something to do with
the procedure becoming a subconscious effort rather than a conscious
one. My advice is twofold.
1. If ever a landing looks like its shaping of to be a bit of a bummer
abort it -- however many times you have to go around.
2. Schedule some time with your instructor to practice landings in those
circumstances (ie crosswind). Its easy to learn bad habits, the more
you practice by yourself without instructor the easier it is to
invent unsound landing techniques (such as landing as 80 to defeat
drift rather that using the controls).
Then just wait and practice until these problems go away as they surely will.
There are a lot of factors to a landing that can change. Wind, Runway,
Lighting etcetc. Try not to change too many of them at once. In other words
feel happy about landing at the controlled strip before you try it
at night with a crosswind!
ctvax!paul
paul.ct@CSNet-Relaydoug@terak.UUCP (12/18/84)
> Well, I don't know 'bout the pros, but I'd have read my manual and noted that > the published crosswind component limitation on the 150 (and presumably the > 152) is around 16mph. Then I would have considered that Cessna published that > figure for an experienced pilot (to me, that's over 1500 hrs) and that their > figure didn't take into account gusting or turbulence. Actually, the Demonstrated Crosswind figure is supposed to be conservative. I don't remember the exact definition, but it is based on "average" pilot technique, and then some percentage (20% ?) is subtracted. Further, for some planes the figure is even lower simply because at the time of certification the test pilots were unable to find a high crosswind to "demonstrate" in. Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{hao,ihnp4,decvax}!noao!terak!doug
marcum@rhino.UUCP (Alan M. Marcum) (12/21/84)
First, regarding "Demonstrated Crosswind Component": RTFM (Read
The (umm, ...) Flying Manual)! In some planes, you might
consider it a conservative statement; in others, it is considered
limiting (an example of the latter is a Beach Debonair).
Second, regarding landing in gusting crosswinds: an experience I
had during primary training has left me in good stead; I'll pass
it on.
One December Monday, I was up with my instructor for some pattern
work. It was a strong, gusty, variable wind -- don't remember
the numbers, but do remember the challenge. We were working at
Palo Alto (PAO); the wind was favoring 12, which has no VASI
(VASI only on 30 there). EVERY time around the patch, as we
turned final and continued on, it was like dancing -- quick with
the footwork, co-ordinate the hands, keep that centerline, all
that rot. I took that attitude that I had about a 50-50 chance
of putting the bird down, and I was very ready to take it around
again. (I now treat every landing in a similar fashion -- "I'm
taking this thing around.......oh, gee, it looks so good I think
I'll set it down!)
One circuit I remember in particular, we were down to about 8
feet or so, holding centerline, and this gust hits. Very
quickly, the right edge of the runway had become the centerline.
Full power, carb heat off, nose up, flaps 10. Rather interesting.
The technique I used that day, and still use, has been mentioned
already: come in a bit hot, with less flaps. I usually increase
my airspeed on final by 50% of the gust component (eg. if winds
are 20 gusting to 30, add about 5 KIAS). If the wind is real
gusty, come in without flaps in a 152 or 172 (though NOT in a 210
without LOTS and LOTS of runway!). Check the Pilot's Operating
Manual, and get with an instructor who knows that airplane if you
have questions.
--
Alan M. Marcum Fortune Systems, Redwood City, California
...!{ihnp4, ucbvax!amd, hpda, sri-unix, harpo}!fortune!rhino!marcum