ths@lanl.ARPA (02/19/85)
The comment by Doug P. on the problems of trying to "gracefully" land some low wing aircraft (Mooney and Comanche) is appropriate. They are difficult to keep off the nose wheel in the flare. This is most noticable with a forward CG (only two persons aboard). Use of the electric trim during the flare makes it a lot easier but can induce even more serious problems if a go-around has to be executed. I don't like the other alternative of NOT using flaps in either of these two planes. They eat up a lot of runway. I will put the Seneca and Lance in the same class - hard to land with a forward CG. Doug, what high wing airplanes CAN NOT open their doors with full flaps! *************BREAK************* Before anyone buys something from Sporty's they should shop around. Although Sporty has just about everything, they do charge the top retail price. You might call the manufacturer and get a few distributors. AT&T is still a very economical method with which to shop. *************BREAK************* How cheap are the rates at Wally Olson's?
doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (02/21/85)
> I don't like the other alternative of NOT using flaps in either of these two > planes [Comanche & Mooney]. They eat up a lot of runway. I wouldn't recommend *not* using flaps, 'cuz those planes will indeed use up plenty of runway even with flaps. I would suggest maybe 20 degrees or so, since this will lower the stall speed almost all the way to Vso. Some pilots use full flaps until ready to touch down, then raise the flaps as the plane settles. I don't have that kind of nerve. > Doug, what high wing airplanes CAN NOT open their doors with full flaps! Okay, that was hearsay so I can't name names. Where I heard that was from the local FAA Accident Prevention Specialist at one of the local Aviation Safety Seminars, so I presumed it to be reliable poop. Maybe someone on the net can confirm or deny it? -- Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{hao,ihnp4,decvax}!noao!terak!doug
doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (02/25/85)
[ Tacky, tacky, following up on my own item.... ] > > Doug, what high wing airplanes CAN NOT open their doors with full flaps! > > Okay, that was hearsay so I can't name names. Where I heard that was > from the local FAA Accident Prevention Specialist at one of the local > Aviation Safety Seminars, so I presumed it to be reliable poop. Maybe > someone on the net can confirm or deny it? Well, I needed a good excuse to wander out to the ol' airport and go airport hopping, so I looked at a bunch of high-wing planes, including Cessnas 150, 152, 170, 172, 177, 180, 182, 195, 206, U206, 207, U207, 210, P210, P337, and the Maule M5 and Piper Tri-pacer. The result: the only instance I could find of flaps blocking doors was on the U206, where the flaps block the rear door. Since the front door is still usable, and the straight 206 gets by with just the front door, I imagine this isn't critical. That's the last time I'll pay any attention to what an FAA man says :-) -- Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{hao,ihnp4,decvax}!noao!terak!doug
cfiaime@ihnp4.UUCP (Jeff Williams) (02/26/85)
> Okay, that was hearsay so I can't name names. Where I heard that was > from the local FAA Accident Prevention Specialist at one of the local > Aviation Safety Seminars, so I presumed it to be reliable poop. Maybe > someone on the net can confirm or deny it? The Cessna 206 is one of these airplanes. With the flaps extended, the rear door can not be opened fully. The rear door, on the right side of the fuselage, is about four feet wide with a double door installed. The foreward part of the door hangs up on the flap. In order to use this as an emergency exit, the foreward part of the door is forced open enough to unlatch the rear part of the door. Then you can go through the rear 2 foot section. Try that in a burning airplane! That is, however, the only high wing airplane that I can think of with that problem. The 207 rear door is farther aft of the wing, so there is no interferance. All of the other Cessna's have the doors in front of the flap. Going farther back, the Piper high wing aircraft, Stinson, Taylorcraft and Aeronca four seaters all had the doors directly under the wing, again there is no interference. Is it possible that the Brittian-Norman Islander/Trislander middle door doesn't open with full flaps? I really can't picture where the middle door is on this airplane. Another bit of food for thought, especially for you Cherokee drivers... How can you get out of your airplane if the door is jammed, and you MUST get out? What alternate exits exist on your airplane? What do you have in the airplane to use to break out a window? No prize to the winners, but the losers really lose. jeff williams AT&T Bell Laboratories ihnp4!cfiaime
marcum@rhino.UUCP (Alan M. Marcum) (02/27/85)
Regarding doors and flaps, on the Cessna 206, the flaps cannot be lowered when the rear door is opened -- the door blocks the flap travel point. The door, however, can be opened sufficiently with the flaps down to permit exit, though it is a bit more complicated to do so than the normal procedure. -- Alan M. Marcum Fortune Systems, Redwood City, California ...!ihnp4!fortune!rhino!marcum
brent@phoenix.UUCP (Brent P. Callahan) (02/27/85)
> Is it possible that the Brittian-Norman Islander/Trislander middle door > doesn't open with full flaps? I really can't picture where the middle > door is on this airplane. The Islander door isn't rectangular. The upper rear corner is truncated to avoid the flap. > How can you get out of your airplane if the door is jammed, and you > MUST get out? What alternate exits exist on your airplane? What do you > have in the airplane to use to break out a window? In New Zealand I would use the axe. No C of A in N.Z. until your aircraft is equipped with a medical kit, axe & fire extinguisher. The axe is useful for hammering in tiedown pickets too. Aren't you required to have an axe in U.S. regd aircraft ? -- Made in New Zealand --> Brent Callaghan AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft, NJ {ihnp4|ahuta|pegasus}!phoenix!brent (201) 576-3475