normb@tekred.UUCP (Norm Babcock ) (05/25/85)
I need some advice and guidance from muh frens out there. Is it possible that a given airplane can have a strange quirk, and fly just fine otherwise? It all started when I wanted to use the local 172 for some x-country work. I'd had some time in 172s and 182s, and on a gusty day grabbed my CFI friend to shoot some touch and goes. Out of five landings all were bad. Flew it again, same result. This morning I flew over to another field, and although the landing was ok, the plane acted rather sullen about it, and wandered from side to side on rollout. Landing later, at my home field, I made a special effort to make a good approach, watch my airspeed, etc. As soon as I touched down, the plane swerved violently to the left, to the extent that the right wing started flying again and lifted the wheel off the runway. Full right rudder was required to maintain control (actually, regain control). Scared? You bet. I'm not flying that thing again until I know if there is a defect in the airplane, or me. I'm wondering if the plane is jinxed, or has a problem, or someone is telling me not to fly 62202. Can planes get funny problems that respond to a particular technique? Are the wheels out of alignment? My CFI friend says it acts a little squirrely with him, but I suspect his 3-4,000 hours (plus taildragger time), (and compared to my 100+), minimizes the pucker factor for him. Anybody else have a similar experience? Thanks in advance for the input. Norm tektronix!tekred!normb
cfiaime@ihnp4.UUCP (Jeff Williams) (06/01/85)
> I need some advice and guidance from muh frens out there. > Is it possible that a given airplane can have a strange > quirk, and fly just fine otherwise? You can bet your bottom dollar that some airplanes have a fully developed personality. I have seen it a number of of times. As an example, I used to fly a 172 (N4339R) that LOVED to do wingovers. Everyone that flew the airplane did wingovers in her, and very seldom did them in another airplane. And, an airplane KNOWS if you respect her or not. If you don't respect her and treat her with affection, she will turn and bite you. (At least according to several FAA examiners that I have been involved with.) The opposite is also true. If you treat an airplane with affection, she will do wonderous things for you. As for your 172 that doesn't like smooth landings, try washing and waxing her. Make her feel real good. Get to know her. Also, realize that she does like to pull funnies on landing, and keep ahead of her. This may sound a bit far fetched, but my studenst have noticed that with this type of attitude, airplanes seem to treat me ok. My own airplane, Phoebe, never let me down, but did pull her pranks. Now, do you think that there are some jinxed pilots? One of my students, now a private pilot , has had the following happen to him this year: 1. engine failure on takeoff 2. alternator fire on startup (172 checkout) 3. electrical and gear problems in a 172RG (during his wife's checkout, same day as the fire in the 172) 4. passenger in a Mooney with gear trouble (two days before the 172 problems) I ask you, is this a jinx? Jeff Williams AT&T Bell Laboratories ihnp4!cfiaime
ark@alice.UUCP (Andrew Koenig) (06/01/85)
We had one of those recently. Our flying club's 150 developed slightly unstable steering on the ground. Pulling the cowling revealed an engine mount cracked in two places.
freeman@spar.UUCP (Jay Freeman) (06/03/85)
[] You are not necessarily imagining things: Small errors in rig, extra wear in this and that, something non-obvious busted, etc., all can indeed create the impression of a "jinxed" airplane. Possible causes of what you describe might include (1) Low tire pressure or worn tires, (2) dragging or damaged brakes on one side, (3) wear or damage to bushings or attach points where the main gear connects to the fuselage structure ... -- Jay Reynolds Freeman (Schlumberger Palo Alto Research)(canonical disclaimer)
scw@cepu.UUCP (Stephen C. Woods) (06/04/85)
In article <345@tekred.UUCP> normb@tekred.UUCP (Norm Babcock ) writes: >I need some advice and guidance from muh frens out there. >Is it possible that a given airplane can have a strange >quirk, and fly just fine otherwise? > >It all started when[..] ok, the plane acted rather sullen >about it, and wandered from side to side on rollout. Landing >later, at my home field,[...], etc. As soon as I touched >down, the plane swerved violently to the left, to the extent >that the right wing started flying again and lifted the wheel >off the runway. Full right rudder was required to maintain >control (actually, regain control). Scared? You bet. > >I'm not flying that[...]t funny problems that respond to >a particular technique? Are the wheels out of alignment? >My CFI friend says it acts a little squirrely with him, but >I suspect his 3-4,000 hours (plus taildragger time), (and >compared to my 100+), minimizes the pucker factor for him. It sounds to me like the Main Gear has a bit of toe-out. Have a good A&P check this out for you. Toe-in (a little) is ok, as it improves tracking, but toe-out (any) is right out, as it causes divergance. With toe-in the leading wheel has more drag on the Runway , with toe-out the trailing wheel has more drag. ^ direction of motion | | straight . turned | | . | | . / \ \ / . __ | . | __ Toe-in toe-out . Toe-in toe-out -- Stephen C. Woods (VA Wadsworth Med Ctr./UCLA Dept. of Neurology) uucp: { {ihnp4, uiucdcs}!bradley, hao, trwrb}!cepu!scw ARPA: cepu!scw@ucla-cs location: N 34 3' 9.1" W 118 27' 4.3"
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (06/05/85)
> Anybody else have a similar experience? Thanks in advance for > the input. Norm > This probably isn't related, but I had a bad experience on rollout once. We were doing touch and goes and I had never realized that my instructor always pulled up the flaps for me when I put the power in. If you apply full power on a 152 with the flaps full down, you'll come right up on the nosewheel. Damn squirrly trying to steer on a Unicycle landing gear. At this point the nosewheel steering does no good and the rudder control is, um, interesting. -Ron
dixon@rtp47.UUCP (Wally Dixon) (06/06/85)
>. . . If you apply full power on a 152 with the flaps full down, you'll >come right up on the nosewheel. Reminds me of a similar incident when I was a student. Seems as though the flap switch (the great big kind with the detents at every 10 degrees) had a case of the stickies when full flaps were used. This happened twice, once doing T-G's on a 3000 foot grass strip with trees at the other end and once on a wide open airfield with a 6000 foot runway. Needless to say, we lived. The point (which I seem to be drifting away from) is that I've never had a 150/152 try to dance on the nosegear. Both full-flap takeoffs resulted in immediate lifting and a pretty (but scary, in the case of the short field) straight and level about 10-20 feet off the runway at about 50-60 KIAS (if that much). Whatever the airspeed was, fortunately it was enough to clear the trees! (No flames about aborting takeoff! By the time we had realized what was going on, it was a choice of hitting the trees at the bottom or at the top). Anyway, perhaps the nosewheel act was a result of trying to keep the plane on the ground when the premature takeoff occurred? -Just Rambling, Wally.
ron@hpfcmt.UUCP (ron) (06/08/85)
Jinxed airplanes ???
Well, I dunno about all that. I can't say I've ever had an encounter with
a malevolent aircraft (except for a 2-22 that flew practically ballistically
with the flight profile of a rock :-)
Some things to have checked: 1. Wheel bearings for looseness and rotational
friction (two separate items). 2. Wheel alignment for all 3 wheels 3. Nosewheel
shimmy damper effectiveness (is it assymetric ?)
Sounds to me like something is WRONG and I wouldn't fly it until I knew what
and could decide to either acknowledge it and fly making provisions for the
problem or just plain wait until it is fixed.
BTW, personality does not imply there's a heart there. Foul up and it will
kill you dead with no regrets........
Ron Miller CFI-G
Hewlett-Packard, Ft. Collins Systems Div.
{ihnp4}!hpfcla!ron