foster@nsc.UUCP (Jerry Foster) (07/19/85)
>I have heard this story from several people, but the one who tells it best >is Steve Bourne of shell fame. Steve does a great rendition of aircraft >stories. If you ever get to meet him, ask him for the one about what the guy >with the privately-owned jet fighter (Starfighter, I think) did when ATC asked >him to report altitudes. Don't know what Steve's Starfighter story is about, but I have one about an F-104 from a few years ago. Anybody out there really know of a privately owned Starfighter? I have only heard of ONE and that belonged to Daryl Greenamyer (sp?) of Reno Air Race fame. Daryl had exhausted the thrills of Reno Unlimiteds and pushed his much modified F-8 Bearcat against the piston engine speed record. I don't remember if he made it or not, but he next wanted to try the jet engine speed record and got himself a totaled F-104 which the DOD had sold for scrap. There wasn't much left of it but the airframe. Combing surplus yards and scrap dealers he was able to rebuild it after several years and set out to capture the jet speed record. At the end of a test run, the gear failed to lock in the down position (or so the indicator said even if it looked ok from the outside). Daryl circled while trying the gear several times with no success. Finally his fuel ran low and he had to make a decision. According to reports, nobody had ever bellied in an F-104 and lived, so Daryl ejected and the plane crashed. End of thousands of man hours, end of hundreds of thousands of dollars, end of speed record attempt - end of story.
peterb@pbear.UUCP (07/22/85)
I remember reading about the "Red Baron" who built his starfighter
from trashed remains loast in training missions. It is probably the same
person you mentioned.
He combed the earth for part and pieces of 104's and after he got
all the pieces needed, he built it and got it flying. Then he put in the
hanger for a long stay while every single surface rivet(which were oval
heads) and replaced every single one (over 25000) with flat headed rivets.
This required the drilling out of the previous rivet and replaceing it with
the flush head type, and then burnishing the surface so paint would adhear
properly. When finished, it was estimated to add over 100mph to the top
speed just from this.
He was going at the sea level jet speed record, and had to do
numerous passes over consecutive days in order to stock up enough proof for
the record books and to get better as the weather got colder. It was on one
of these days when the landing gear did not lock. After futile attempts at
forcing the gear to lock, he trusted his rebuilt-by-hand ejection seat and
pulled it. He had set the autopilot to put the plane into a 3 degree descent
and hold the airspeed to about 140mph in hopes that it would pancake in and
not suffer massive damage. Unfortunately the jet came in and pancaked as
planned, but on the first skip rolled over and landed on its back causing it
to cartwheel. Needless to say the airframe was totalled.
Peter Barada
{ihnp4!inmet|{harvard|cca}!ima}!pbear!peterbwmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (07/22/85)
This posting brought to mind the following query: Is there any restriction, besides money and sanity, on private individuals buying military aircraft? If I went to McDonnell-Douglas and waved a satchel of cash at them and asked for an F-15 after their current military production run was complete, could I get it? I would think that there would be ordinary BATF(*) regulations on the armament, but that could be left off (maybe get a photo-recon version?) If it wasn't for export, there wouldn't be any of those licenses or restrictions involved. Are there any other rules or regulations that would restrict the sale or ownership of such aircraft? (Buying used from DoD is another matter, I know -- there are property-disposal regulations that usually require the "demilitarization" of excess military equipment (usually cutting it into scrap); this would be different than buying new from the manufacturer.) (*) Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms Regards, Will Martin UUCP/USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA
brad@gcc-bill.ARPA (Brad Parker) (07/23/85)
In article <3003@nsc.UUCP> foster@nsc.UUCP (Jerry Foster) writes: >Anybody out there really know of a privately owned Starfighter? Anyone one heard of a group who bought 3 old A-4D SkyHawks and got one of them working? I'm kinda fond of them, my daddy used to fly 'em. (I often wonder if there's a line connecting the two points between a C-150 and A-4D, I'm getting board with the C-150's...) -- J Bradford Parker uucp: seismo!harvard!gcc-bill!brad "She said you know how to spell AUDACIOUSLY? I could tell I was in love... You want to go to heaven? or would you rather not be saved?" - Lloyd Coal
mike@dolqci.UUCP (Mike Stalnaker) (07/23/85)
There are several types of problems you might potentially run
into with buying a "military" aircraft. When DG went to buy an engine
for his Starfighter, he had a devil of a time getting one, as the Air
Force did not want to let an individual have that powerful an aircraft.
Current production runs are even worse, due to the fact that many of the
avionics are classified, along with certain parts of the basic airframe,
overall capabilities, etc, so the Goverenment would probably block any
such sale out of hand, using the "classified information" dodge. Plus
there would be problems with the FAA, BATF, and heaven only know what
else.
--
--Stormcrow o
| | |
| | |
|___/ |
o |______/ o
|
Never sit with your |
back facing a window |
or door. o [Standard Disclaimer applies]
--- Lazarus Long.cfiaime@ihnp3.UUCP (J. Williams) (07/23/85)
> > Anybody out there really know of a privately owned Starfighter? > I have only heard of ONE and that belonged to Daryl Greenamyer (sp?) of > Reno Air Race fame. Daryl had exhausted the thrills of Reno Unlimiteds > and pushed his much modified F-8 Bearcat against the piston engine > speed record. I don't remember if he made it or not, but he next wanted > to try the jet engine speed record and got himself a totaled F-104 which > the DOD had sold for scrap. There wasn't much left of it but the airframe. > Combing surplus yards and scrap dealers he was able to rebuild it after > several years and set out to capture the jet speed record. Daryl's F-104 was actually the Lockheed "boilerplate" mockup of the airplane. A manufacturer will build a complete airframe to use for systems test and upgrade kit test. The only difference between the "boilerplate" and airworthy airframes is that the boilerplate is built with round-head rivits rather than the more expensive to use flush rivits. (Consider, on a round head rivit, you drill one hole per sheet of metal, on a countersunk or flush rivit you not only have to drill one hole per sheet, but the top hole needs to be drilled a second time to get the bevels.) Anyway, the airframe was totally rebuilt using flush rivits. The number of attempts on the altitude and speed records were limited by temperature fatigue factors. (He figured that he had two shots at the speed record, then the airframe would be too weak.) About the time this F-104 was flying, there was an ad in Trade-A-Plane for an F-104F (two seat version). "I did it, you can too..." If that airframe was sold, it should be just about ready to fly... jeff williams AT&T Bell Laboratories ihnp3!cfiaime
dsmith@hplabsc.UUCP (David Smith) (07/27/85)
> Anybody out there really know of a privately owned Starfighter? > I have only heard of ONE and that belonged to Daryl Greenamyer (sp?) of > Reno Air Race fame.... > I don't remember if he made it or not, but he next wanted > to try the jet engine speed record and got himself a totaled F-104 which > the DOD had sold for scrap. There wasn't much left of it but the airframe. Because DOD's policy is to sell them as scrap only, badly cut up to prevent any thought of restoration. > Combing surplus yards and scrap dealers he was able to rebuild it after > several years and set out to capture the jet speed record. He captured the low-altitude jet speed record, and was grooming the plane for an assault on the altitude record for aircraft that take off under their own power. > > At the end of a test run, the gear failed to lock in the down position > (or so the indicator said even if it looked ok from the outside). Daryl > circled while trying the gear several times with no success. Finally > his fuel ran low and he had to make a decision. According to reports, > nobody had ever bellied in an F-104 and lived, so Daryl ejected and the > plane crashed. End of thousands of man hours, end of hundreds of > thousands of dollars, end of speed record attempt - end of story. I saw this plane towed as a parade float in the 4th of July parade in Idaho Falls, ID, in I guess 1978, to advertise the coming air show (at which it was parked). I saw the highly compacted remains of the central fuselage lying by a building at the Mojave airport in October 1983. A crying shame. It had been a beautiful aircraft. (And to forestall a chewing out, this thing had no weapons.) David Smith ucbvax!hplabs!dsmith
fredc@bmcg.UUCP (Fred Cordes) (08/02/85)
Regards "bellying in" an F104- I recall reading a pilot report about flying these planes. An instructor was interviewed about dead-stick landings. He said that the short, very thin wings have (had?) BLC- boundary layer control. This is high pressure air from one of the engine compressor stages that is ducted over the wing near the leading edge. It prevents boundary layer separation (and stall) from occurring in steep angles of attack that are needed for approach to landing. If there is a flameout, the minimum landing speed would be raised to 250 kts to compensate for no BLC. The instructor knew of no one who'd landed this way. fred cordes