[fa.telecom] TELECOM Digest V4 #147

telecom@ucbvax.ARPA (01/15/85)

From: Jon Solomon (the Moderator) <Telecom-Request@BBNCCA>


TELECOM Digest     Mon, 14 Jan 85 16:46:43 EST    Volume 4 : Issue 147

Today's Topics:
                          Reach Out America
                           $10 per hr. rate
                        Advance Toll Payments
                           "attack dialing"?
         Frigging obnoxious tel solicitors; fact & advice (?)
                         Re: $10 per hr. rate
                      Re: Advance Toll Payments
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Date: Sat, 12 Jan 85 10:22:03 est
From: ulysses!smb@UCB-VAX (Steven Bellovin)
To: telecom@bbncca.ARPA
Subject: Reach Out America
Cc: vax135!petsd!peora!jer@UCB-VAX

There was indeed a great deal of regulatory controversy when AT&T filed
the tariffs for "Reach Out America" (the late-night discount calling plan).
AT&T's claim was that the plan would stimulate demand; hence, by charging
less, they'd increase revenues with little increase in costs.  That's
very attractive to regulatory agencies....

Besides, it's not reasonable to say that AT&T shouldn't be allowed to
compete with MCI et al....

		--Steve Bellovin
		AT&T Bell Laboratories

"The preceeding statements are my own personal opinions, and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions of AT&T, AT&T Bell Laboratories, etc."

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Date:    12 January 85 12:17-EST
From:      Michael Grant  <GRANT%UMDB.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA>
To: Telecom Digest <TELECOM@BBNCCA>  (.ARPA)
Subject: $10 per hr. rate

$10 per hour rate comes out to $0.166 per minute. I've not heard of of the
$8.50 rate ($0.141/min).  Is there some clause that says that you pay for the
hour wether you use it or not?  I have SBS, they charge $0.11/min to a
neighboring state, $0.15 within a 'region' (whatever that can mean) and $.17
'coast to coast'. (these rates are all late night/weekend rates.)  AT&T
actually wins if you call 'coast to coast' all the time.  But I don't always
spend an hour on the phone long distance each month.  Has anyone seen any
other long distance service which is more econimical?  I'd like to see a
company offer flat rate long distance. But I'm sure it would just be
abused. (by flat rate I mean, pay one price each month)
-Mike Grant

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Date: Sat 12 Jan 85 11:18:39-PST
From: Ole Jorgen Jacobsen <OLE@SRI-NIC.ARPA>
Subject: Advance Toll Payments
To: Telecom@MIT-MC.ARPA



	I received a surprising phone call from Pacific Bell
recently. They had discovered that during the first 11 days
of that particular billing period, I had  made a number of
long distance (overseas) phonecalls and "based on their pro-
jection" my phonebill would end up totalling $700 or so for
that month. They therefore demanded *immediate* payment of
"advance toll charges" so far accumulated (about $200). I
gave up arguing with them since I knew the billing period
ended on the 19th and it was the 14th when they called me up,
in other words, I *knew* that the total bill for that month
would be almost exactly what they wanted in advance. Immediate
payment meant *the next day* or else my phone would be dis-
connected and re-connection charges would be applied. I'm
sure glad I was not out of town when this happened. Has anyone
had similar experiences? Why on earth do they apply this
weird statistical formula which says if you use you phone
alot at the beginning of the month then they "project" your
usage will be the same for the rest of the month? And why do
they give you absolutely NO grace period for "advance toll"
payments?

I guess the answer is as always: "We don't care, we don't have to,
				  we're the Phone Company"



<OLE>
<370>
-------


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Date: 13 January 1985 09:12-EST
From: Howard D. Trachtman <HDT@Mit-Mc.ARPA>
Subject:  "attack dialing"?
To: cmoore@Brl-Vld.ARPA

    "Second, If a store puts your number on their telephone solicitation list,
    can you cure them of that by repeatedly calling them, or is that illegal
    (I think that it's called attack dialing?)"
    It does sound illegal (so there'd better be a good way of getting your
    number off such a list).  The following is excerpted from Northeastern
    Maryland call guide (check for laws of other states, but don't be sur-
    prised if they're pretty much the same):
    "Abusive calling: It is a criminal offense under Maryland and Federal Laws
    for any person to make use of telephone facilities and equipment for:
    Repeated calls--If with intent to annoy, abuse, torment, harass, or em-
    barrass one or more persons." (Also mentioned are anonymous calls and
    obscene comments.)
I would hope this is illegal.  Just the other day I was wondering what would
happen to a company with an 800 number that got attack called on it.
Even if the bill never got paid, tying up an order line might kill them.

--Howard--
    The above was for thought purposes only.  Do NOT repeat this stunt at home.



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Date: 13 January 1985 04:56-EST
From: Howard D. Trachtman <HDT @ MIT-MC>
Subject:  Frigging obnoxious tel solicitors; fact & advice (?)
To: hpda!hptabu!dclaar @ UCB-VAX

    Date: Tue, 8 Jan 85 12:15:25 pst
    From: hpda!hptabu!dclaar at Berkeley (Doug Claar)
    To:   'Telecom-Request' at BBNCCA.ARPA
    Re:   questions about touchstar service

    I have a couple of questions about the TOUCHSTAR service.
    First, I note that unlisted numbers are protected. Does this
    include protection from call back? I can see telephone soliciters
    getting unlisted numbers <*>   {convention invention}

Um, this is the default case even in phone rooms that are 
"less obnoxious".  The people in the room don't even know the phone
number.  Frequently, they bought the phones in blocks, and if a couple
people in a row are not at their phone, you will hear one phone ring about
1 or 2 rings then the next then the other.   I think we can all guess
the process being described.
                             <*>  so that people can't touch them.

Many pay phones are already hacked so as not to accept incoming calls.
There probably is/will be a "feature" one could buy that would always
prevent your number from being called and ringing, as but there are other
reasons for that (in fact I'm sure I saw this as a TOUCHSTAR feature on a
"temporary" basis.  Even in "losing" areas, one could always call forward
one's phone to a local losing place (if willing to pay forwarding charges).
Seperate Legal scenerious.  Suppose ANY business forwards your phone to:
1) a KNOWN place such as the local weather w/ intent to simply
   avoid incoming calls
   a) Would this have to be cleared with the target phone number
           i) If calls were excessive
          ii) Even if number is "Advertised" to take gobs & gobs of calls
         iii) Under no/any conditions
          iv) When intent is merely to avoid these calls.
           v) When done temporary as a "hack" for a few minutes
2)  a PRIVATE residence  that is unknown.
           i) if selected at random
          ii) if selected w/ intent to annoy
         iii) by mistake eg. wrong phone # typed in to forwarding mech.
        (YES, this requires receive party to answer.....NOW/as does above

...

    Second, If a store puts your number on their telephone solicitation list,
    can you cure them of that by repeatedly calling them, or is that illegal
    (I think that it's called attack dialing?)
Um, repeatedly calling can only cause the original person possible legal 
problems and make the target party mad.   REMEMBER:  IN THE CASE OF
TELEPHONE SOLICITORS THEY HAVE the ideal environment to ATTACK call YOU,
if they desired.  While legally that may screw you, I've known places to
make a decision to YANK all phones and people out of an office in less
that 2 days.  All you lose is a fraction of 1 months rent; your good
employees hang with you.

Solution:  Most solicitors of general-hawkish items  (ie. not
financial services sales & marketing professionals) are, while on
commission, usually are making 1-4 X minimum wage  (even if on 100%
commission, one's checks usually are about the same each week (depending
on hours worked, of course) and really are the typical hardworking
college student trying to make a buck (got to put in a plug for them/us
on the ARPANET).  The long term soliciting operations really are concerned
not to annoy people, and if you tell them politely if they could take you
off the list you can/will do so.   Sometimes, they will be lazy and not
do so, therefore its usually a good idea to ask for the supervisor,
even though they may gribe.  Also, if you have an unlisted number, don't
bother asking "how did you get this number" unless you want to waste a lot
of time.  Most solicitors are programmed to answer this "We dial in numerical
sequence and... {you're the lucky winner}.  As far fetched as this may seem,
many times it is correct.  If it isn't, then your number came out of (you
guessed it), some kind of directory (Haines, Polk, Thomas, phone book).
Unless you really want to engage in conversation most of the people are
too stupid to be able to help you.  (Like even if they are calling numbers
out of the Haines directory, sometimes the solicitor is really only dialing
a list of numbers off of a adding machine tape readout or a computer printout
and would have no idea where the numbes originally came from.

	Howard D. Trachtman
           R & B Consulting, Inc.
            Cambridge, MA 
PS:  I still own an operation that legally can do telephone-solitici
(actually anyone can legally, but commercial liscences...).   
Note there is a big difference between various soliciting places.
If interested, I could provide a brief summary.     Rest assured though
that I won't call *you* up at home.   I once saw representatives at a 
"firm (reg. w/BBB clean record in 2 relevant and 1 random AREA code that 
called after 1 1/2 years)  which sold "advertising specialties  
(long story of those con people {again, only if interested}) call people
up at work and if they didn't buy, on their own personal whim would hack
a home phone number associated with that person, and call the spouse 
(non-sexist on my part) to see if 'direct quote: "She's a bitch or not".
This was real heavy stuff that turned my stomach, but I didn't want
to fight the system.  These reps had their own secretaries, and I honestly
doubt if the managers knew everything that was going on. (Sure the supers
can always listen in, but the reps can defeat/detect that easily).



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 85 16:32:48 EST
From: Jon Solomon <jsol@bbncca.ARPA>
Subject: Re: $10 per hr. rate
To: Michael Grant  <GRANT%UMDB.BITNET@wiscvm.arpa>
Cc: Telecom Digest <TELECOM@bbncca.arpa>

My AT&T Reach out America service is billed at $11.50 for the
first hour (whether you use it or not), and $8.50 per hour
(pro rated - you pay for what you use and no more) after that.
The $11.50 rather than $10.00 is so I can get 15% discount
on evening calls too.

While it is a bit more expensive than SBS, the quality of the
service really pays for itself

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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 85 16:35:04 EST
From: Jon Solomon <jsol@bbncca.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Advance Toll Payments
To: Ole Jorgen Jacobsen <OLE@sri-nic.arpa>
Cc: Telecom@mit-mc.arpa

I've dealt with Pacific Bell (when it was Pacific Telephone), GTE, NJ
Bell, Southern New England Telephone, and New England Telephone in my
life and I have never found a larger bunch of assholes than in the
California Phone companies. One note of sympathy is that GTE is far
WORSE than Pacif**k. 

On a lighter note, Pacific Telephone was probably just covering
it's collective ass about international calling (which has been
greatly abused in the past). While they didn't mention it at
the time, I'm pretty sure they were also interested in knowing
whether you in fact made the International Calls and they wanted
to know immediately so they could start an investigation if you
hadn't.

I've been hit with "projected" calling in California too, but
I was told I had a week (and it was in writing, not by phone).


I'm so glad I live in an area where phone companies feel that
customers are important and should be dealt with respectfully.




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End of TELECOM Digest
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