telecom@ucbvax.ARPA (02/04/85)
From: Jon Solomon (the Moderator) <Telecom-Request@BBNCCA>
TELECOM Digest Sun, 3 Feb 85 18:38:12 EST Volume 4 : Issue 153
Today's Topics:
ATT Telephone Billing
RE: AT&T Equipment
Equal Access
Re: Pushbutton (not touch tone)
Hold and two phone lines
more kludges
DMR-11
"{" noise & Southwestern Bell
Apt. Building Phone's
AT+T (Yep, collection agencies)
Equal Access comes to Baltimore, MD
push-button phones
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 85 15:26 MST
From: Denman@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA
Subject: ATT Telephone Billing
To: TELECOM@BBNCCA.ARPA
ATT can (and does) get nasty about not paying telephone rental charges
very quickly. The sound the panic button long before the current rental
period is over. The rental may not be a very large amount, but if you
add the rent to ATT's list price of the phone it becomes a much more
worthwile figure to go after, and they assume if your not paying the
rent that obviously since you still have the phone that you want to buy
it so they bill you accordingly. BTW Thier billing system seems to have
a lot of bugs.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 85 18:00:20 EST
From: Anne Rich <rich@udel-eecis2>
To: telecom@bbncca.ARPA
Subject: RE: AT&T Equipment
Since I had this problem with AT&T, perhaps I can answer
some of your questions. The local BOC here stopped billing
for AT&T equipment rental last August, and AT&T began sending
bills to consumers directly for leased instruments and the like.
This didn't concern me since I owned my own equipment, until
I started to get bills from AT&T for two desk telephones they
said I was renting. After the first bill, I called the AT&T
customer service number, and was told that it was a "computer
error" - sure, pass the buck to an inanimate object that can't
argue back - and that it was fixed. Then in November I got
another bill, and a letter from AT&T stating that I was overdue
on my previous bill. I called them again, and was told that
they had records of my phone bills from February and March
proving that I paid rent on 2 desk telephones - which was
particularly interesting considering that I didn't even have
a telephone in February and most of March. They said they'd
"check it out and get back to me". Needless to say, a few
days later I received a letter stating that AT&T wanted the
back rent on the phones, plus payment for them - since I
wasn't paying rent or returning them they wanted me to buy
them. I called back, and the service agent told me that they
were sure I was wrong, but they would contact my local telephone
company to get copies of their back records on my account and
get back to me. Meanwhile, the next day I got a letter from
AT&T stating that they were disconnecting my long distance
line (???) since I hadn't paid the bills, which they demanded
I pay or they threatened court action, and that I should be
concerned about my credit rating. I called them again, and
got yet another serivce agent (whenever I called, the previous
agent I had had would be "out" or "busy") who said she would
also check into it. I got a letter the next day saying that
they were willing to not charge me for the cost of the phones
if I would just pay them the back rent - pretty nice of them
considering I didn't even have their phones! A few days
later I called back - as usual, the previous service agent
was "busy" - but the one I got checked my records and said my
account had been "credited for the required amount" - that was
all the information she could/would give me.
My long distance service was never disconnected, although AT&T
had given me an exact date on which it would no longer be active
and the problem wasn't resolved until over a month after that
date. I was never notified of any "court action" and my local
telephone company never got involved in any way. My local phone
company told me there was no way for my long distance to be disabled.
I don't think AT&T CAN do anything, except expend money to take
a customer to court, which I don't think they would do unless it
was for a very large amount of money.
The moral: Use MCI.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31-Jan-85 17:23:13 PST
From: Lauren Weinstein <vortex!lauren@RAND-UNIX.ARPA>
Subject: Equal Access
To: TELECOM@MC
I was talking to some AT&T "large account" account reps a few
days ago, and they think Equal Access is just fine. The reason
is rather interesting. In order to get Equal Access in a given
city, you also have to get the feature package (level "D") to provide
called party answering supervision. This combination is quite expensive.
The alternate carriers are finding that their costs for connecting
equal access are going through the roof and are already starting
to cut back on their plans. Note what this means. In general, you
only will get called party supervision to those locations that
have equal access installed. For most other terminating
points, the calls will continue to be billed on the "after so much
time on a call you get charged, regardless of whether or not there
was an answer" technique that the alternates have been using all
along. Not only that, but even in some areas where equal access
IS installed, the alternates have decided not to use the feature
package, since they don't have the facilities to pass the info back
to their billing computers. This means that the alternates, by and
large, will be using their timing technique (which tends to result
in errors in their favor for many calls) for the indefinite future.
This puts AT&T in a good position since only they have called party
supervision in place to ALL points, and that is quite a good selling
point, especially with business customers who could lose a fortune
a little at a time with the "timing only" technique the others
are generally using. The reps also mentioned that the figures
you hear quoted how "40% of the customers in the first equal access
cities dropped AT&T" are pretty much meaningless. Why? Because AT&T
has been very successful at signing up the business users who
account for the overwhelming mass of revenues (remember the figures
from a couple of years ago telling how something like 3% of the
customers represented about 85% of the revenue?) So as long
as AT&T is successful at keeping the business users, it doesn't
matter too much if the mom and pop subscribers who only make modest
use of long distance want to switch. AT&T has also found that
business users are the most aware of the busy circuits and variable
quality frequently found on the alternates. Many of these business
subscribers have already had their fill of the others and gladly
sign up with AT&T. Large numbers of variable quality phone calls,
busy circuits, or calls that just suddenly drop off in the middle,
are simply not good for business.
--Lauren--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 85 20:03:08 EST
From: Ron Natalie <ron@BRL-TGR.ARPA>
To: TELECOM@BBNCCA.ARPA
Subject: Re: Pushbutton (not touch tone)
There are any number of companies now that sell phones that use
two RJ11's and have a a-b line switch and pseudo hold capability.
I believe I saw these in the DAK or JSA catalogs, but I'm pretty
sure I came accross them in either BEST or BELL's.
-Ron
------------------------------
To: telecom%bbncca.csnet-relay.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
From: ark.grigg.btl@csnet-relay.arpa
Date: 31 Jan 1985 19:39 EST
In response to the query about picking up two lines with a single phone:
AT&T makes something called a "Touch-a-Matic 310" telephone.
This is a telephone with a push-button dial in the handset
and buttons to pick up a pair of lines in the base. It also
has a hold and a conference button.
The telephone has two (electronic) ringers in the base and
a third one in the handset. The handset ringer goes off whenever
the currently selected line rings. The ringers in the base have
independently adjustable volume controls and sound different
from each other.
Connection is via a standard RJ-11 jack; red and green for line 1,
yellow and black for line 2.
------------------------------
Date: 1 Feb 85 1203 EST (Friday)
From: Craig.Everhart@CMU-CS-A.ARPA
To: TELECOM@BBNCCA.ARPA
Subject: Hold and two phone lines
I've seen DAK's ads for phones that manage two lines (with hold).
If I could only remember their 800 phone number...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 85 14:43:28 EST
From: Carl Moore (VLD/VMB) <cmoore@Brl-Vld.ARPA>
To: telecom@Brl-Vld.ARPA
Subject: more kludges
Nov. 1984 Baltimore metro directory doesn't list pseudo-foreign
prefixes the way it used to. The following are all listed in there
as Fork:
(area 301) 592 Fork; 557 Jarrettsville (Fork service); 679 Edgewood
(Fork service); 879 Bel Air-Fallston (Fork service); 575 Aberdeen-
Havre de Grace (Fork service).
(For those of you not familiar with Baltimore area: there really is
a place called Fork!)
In Delaware (area 302), call guide of Wilmington directory has a couple
of recent additions to list of place names: Marshallton (992) and
Talleyville (479). But I suspect that they serve the same area
as Newport (994,995,998,999) and 478 Wilmington, respectively.
------------------------------
Date: 1-Feb-85 17:17:36-PST
From: jbn@FORD-WDL1.ARPA
Subject: DMR-11
To: TELECOM@BBNCCA.ARPA
Cc: jbn@FORD-WDL1.ARPA
Anyone seriously considering the use of DMC-11 or DMR-11 devices at high
speed should contact me to find out why they don't want to.
John Nagle
jbn@FORD-WDL1.ARPA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 85 10:30:20 cst
From: allegra!noao!utastro!nather@Berkeley (Ed Nather)
To: noao!allegra!ucbvax!telecom@Berkeley
Subject: "{" noise & Southwestern Bell
After a new switching system was installed in northwest Austin, Texas, I
found I got a regular burst of noise that gave me a "{" character about
once a second when I tried to call our departmental Vax at 1200 baud. It
made communication impossible. I asked about experience with this via
this newsgroup and got several useful replies (thank you, gentlemen) but
couldn't find a mail path to reply to all of them. I laid this information
on Southwestern Bell, and got the following responses:
1. There isn't any problem.
2. If you are using a modem you need a special data circuit.
3. (Finally:) Yes, we recognize we have a problem but haven't solved
it yet. I don't understand the technical things you're telling me
but I'll have my supervisor call you. (Didn't happen)
4. (Later:) Yes, we still have a problem due to synchronizing the trunk
lines in the new system, but we have imported a system expert who
should be able to fix it.
This sounded like the typical runaround to me until Lo! the noise disappeared
one day, about a month ago, and has not returned. I don't know whether my
complaints did any good or not; I suspect someone with more clout got to them.
However, the moral is: it *can* be fixed, if enough people complain, and
they'll do it if goaded enough. It seems to be a synchronizing problem, where
the oscillators (ca. 12 MHz) are separate and slip out of phase -- one part in
10e7 difference in frequency gives about a 1 Hz beat. The phase slip is
detected and results in circuit interruption to get them "back in step."
All's well that ends well -- until next time.
Ed Nather
Astronony Dept, U of Texas @ Austin
{allegra,ihnp4}!{noao,ut-sally}!utastro!nather
------------------------------
Date: 2 February 85 12:20-EST
From: Michael Grant <GRANT%UMDB.Bitnet@WISCVM.ARPA>
To: Telecom Digest <TELECOM@BBNCCA.ARPA>
Subject: Apt. Building Phone's
The building I live in is using an old AT&T in house message service. This
consists of a frame in the basement, a switchboard in the lobby with the old
plugs and wires mess. This system was installed about 15 years ago, and I
believe AT&T has finally determined that it is obsolete, and wants to stop
servicing it. This became evident when I was looking around our phone room
and noticed that the backup bateries for this system where awfully low on
water (less than half full!) I told the superindendant of the building, who
was more interested in knowing how I got into the phone room than what was
wrong. A few weeks later, I get this notice infroming me that our phone
syustem is now obsolete, and there will be a general meeting to discuss
getting something more modern.
I'd like to know if anyone out there has any suggestions on an in house
phone system for my building. The basic requirements are:
- Service 550 units
- Ability for the desk attendant to pick up an apartment's phone
iff the person in the apartment has set his phone to do this.
I'm interested in suggesting companies names to the building whom to try,
or whom to stay away from. Thanx in advance. { Ad(Thanx)vance }
-Mike Grant
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 85 11:42:14 pst
From: gts%ucbpopuli.CC@Berkeley (Greg Small)
To: telecom@bbncca
Subject: AT+T (Yep, collection agencies)
Pace@USC-ECLC is correct, ATT simply refers the bill to a collection agency.
My mother bought two wall phones on 2 Nov, was billed $ 42.50 on 11 Nov, ATT
cashed the check on 6 DEC but credited it to her "lease account" (which
was closed) instead of her "sales account". She received 3 further notices
each with increasing computer generated threat levels in Dec and early Jan.
She replied to each but finally called ATT when the third arrived and was
told to send a copy of the cancelled check "or else". She sent the copy
but on Jan 25 received the first notice from a local collection agency
("OR ELSE!"). I called ATT and sternly advised them of the situation, but
the ATT person discoved the miscredit rapidly and promised to transfer the
credit (and call off the hounds). ATT is apparently learning about
consumer collection (and making the same mistakes).
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 85 20:08:41 EST
From: Joe Pistritto <jcp@BRL-TGR.ARPA>
To: fomm@BRL-TGR.ARPA
Subject: Equal Access comes to Baltimore, MD
Just got my 'equal access' brochure in the mail from C&P.
On May 5, 1985, Equal Access long distance service will be available
from the 321,337 and 583 exchanges. These are apparently the first
exchanges in the Baltimore area to be upgraded to equal access.
The choices are: (drum roll please)
TDX Systems Inc (Business only)
GTE Sprint Direct Dial Service
EG Communications
SBS Skyline
Telesaver Inc.
ITT Longer Distance
AT&T Long Distance Service
ALLNET Dial 1 Service
Western Union LongDistance Services
US Telephone Inc.
MCI Telecommunicatins Corporation
After November 5, a service charge will be assessed to change
your service designation, which defaults to C&P Telephone.
Does anyone have rate comparisons for service offered under
equal access by these carriers? (Particularly SBS Skyline, ITT, AT&T,
MCI, and Sprint, which I understand are the best choices).
-JCP-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 85 18:18:43 est
From: ulysses!smb@Berkeley (Steven Bellovin)
To: telecom-request@bbncca.ARPA
Subject: push-button phones
To the moderator: this is a reply to a query in the last digest. I'm
sending it to you, rather than to 'telecom', because I'm concerned that
the commercial content might make it inappropriate. (I think it's OK,
given other stuff I've seen, but I'll defer to your judgement.) My attempt
to reply directly to the author failed.
--Steve Bellovin
smb.ulysses@btl.csnet
--------------------
There are many such devices. Being a Bell Labs employee, I'll first
mention an AT&T phone that plugs into a "RJ14" (I think that's the
number) jack, which is an ordinary RJ-11 with two lines, one on
red/green and the other on black/yellow. It can talk on either line,
put either line on hold, or bridge the two for a "conference" call. It
can also store two numbers, plus it has last-number redial. Dunno what
it sells for; I've seen it in the employee discount catalog. Other
companies make similar equipment; Radio Shack even sells a little box
that plugs into an RJ14 (maybe it's RJ13...) line, has any standard
phone plug into it, and lets you select either number. I don't know what
it does about ring; the AT&T phone uses different chirps for the different
lines.
--Steve Bellovin
AT&T Bell Laboratories
"These opinions are mine, not the company's, etc."
------------------------------
End of TELECOM Digest
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