ugthomas@sunybcs.UUCP (Timothy Thomas) (01/22/86)
I was thinking of buying the stereo tv receiver from radio shack (instead
of buying a whole new T.V.). I have cable, so the easiest way to hook
it up would be to run cable from the remote tuner to it (so the stereo
tv receiver would always be tuned to Ch. 3).
Would this work? Would the tuner convert the stereo signals from other
stations to stereo on Ch. 3?
Also (i know this will probably be different with many cable companies,
but...) do cable companies that broadcast station in FM simulcast (e.g. MTV,
Movie Channel, etc..) also broadcast them in stereo for the radio shack
device to pick up?
thanks in advance,
--
____________ ____/--\____
\______ ___) ( _ ____) "Damn it Jim!,
__| |____/ / `--' I'm a programmer not a Doctor!"
) `|=(-
\------------'
Timothy D. Thomas SUNY/Buffalo Computer Science
UUCP: [decvax,dual,rocksanne,watmath,rocksvax]!sunybcs!ugthomas
CSnet: ugthomas@buffalo, ARPAnet: ugthomas%buffalo@CSNET-RELAY brown@nicmad.UUCP (01/24/86)
In article <2757@sunybcs.UUCP> ugthomas@gort.UUCP (Timothy Thomas) writes: > >I was thinking of buying the stereo tv receiver from radio shack (instead >of buying a whole new T.V.). I have cable, so the easiest way to hook >it up would be to run cable from the remote tuner to it (so the stereo >tv receiver would always be tuned to Ch. 3). >Would this work? Would the tuner convert the stereo signals from other >stations to stereo on Ch. 3? No. Home (consumer) tuners change the incomming RF signals to baseband signals. That is done so that video and audio outputs can be supplied. That signal is then converted to RF, ie, channel 3 or 4. The MTS signal will be lost. Even if it was a MTS tuner (which you don't have, or you wouldn't be asking this question), the RF output would still be mono. I haven't seen any consumer device with MTS encoder included. You will have to hook up the cable directly to the Radio Shack unit. The Radiso Shack unit has both in and out F-59 connectors, so it can be hooked up first, then a cable can be connected to the other tuner. I have the same Radio Shack tuner. The tuner does not have tuning capacity for cable channels. It is normal TV channels only, ie, VHF 2-13 and UHF. If your cable company has any MTS tv stations on any other channel, you will not get it with this unit. But, you can if you get a VHF to UHF up-converter. That will move all cable channels to UHF, which the Radio Shack unit can do. >Also (i know this will probably be different with many cable companies, >but...) do cable companies that broadcast station in FM simulcast (e.g. MTV, >Movie Channel, etc..) also broadcast them in stereo for the radio shack >device to pick up? Most cable companies have not gone through the expense to add MTS encoding to the channels they have in stereo on the FM band. Also, most pay channels that use scrambling, will probably never be able to have MTS encoding. The syncronization signal to reconstruct the horizontal sync is, normally, an AM modulated sine-wave. That sine-wave is modulated on the sound carrier, right were the new MTS signals are contained. I have seen reports where tests have been done and some distortion was added to the stereo MTS signal and other tests where it didn't. So, we will have to wait and see what happens in the pay cable area. -- ihnp4------\ harvard-\ \ Mr. Video seismo!uwvax!nicmad!brown topaz-/ / decvax------/
jimb@tekcbi.UUCP (Jim Boland) (01/24/86)
> > I was thinking of buying the stereo tv receiver from radio shack > I have cable, so the easiest way to hook > it up would be to run cable from the remote tuner to it (so the stereo > tv receiver would always be tuned to Ch. 3). > Would this work? Probably not as most cable converters have a CH3 or Ch4 modulator in them which are not stereo. The cable industry is not ready for stereo. Before you purchase the receiver, You should call your cable company and ask a knowledgable technician if it would work with their system. There is no standard as far as cable companies go and the easiest way to find out if yours is stereo compatible is to call them. > Also (i know this will probably be different with many cable companies, > but...) do cable companies that broadcast station in FM simulcast (e.g. MTV, > Movie Channel, etc..) also broadcast them in stereo for the radio shack > device to pick up? NO The only guarantee (??) you get for using the R.S. (or other) decoder is that it will work if you connect it to an outside antenna and pick up the stations over the air. Of course, it will only work on those stations actually broadcasting in stereo. With cable, all bets are off. Note: FM simulcast is NOT stereo TV.
brown@nicmad.UUCP (01/26/86)
In article <527@nicmad.UUCP> brown@nicmad.UUCP (Mr. Video) writes: >In article <2757@sunybcs.UUCP> ugthomas@gort.UUCP (Timothy Thomas) writes: >> >>I was thinking of buying the stereo tv receiver from radio shack (instead >>of buying a whole new T.V.). I have cable, so the easiest way to hook >>it up would be to run cable from the remote tuner to it (so the stereo >>tv receiver would always be tuned to Ch. 3). >>Would this work? Would the tuner convert the stereo signals from other >>stations to stereo on Ch. 3? > >No. Home (consumer) tuners change the incomming RF signals to baseband >signals. That is done so that video and audio outputs can be supplied. >That signal is then converted to RF, ie, channel 3 or 4. The MTS signal >will be lost. Even if it was a MTS tuner (which you don't have, or >you wouldn't be asking this question), the RF output would still be mono. >I haven't seen any consumer device with MTS encoder included. It has come to my attention that the original writer may have meant cable tv converter, instead of remote tuner. If he has a cable tv converter box that can be remote controlled to tune cable channels down to channel 2 or 3 or 4, then what he originally asked may work. It was because of the unfortunate use of the word tuner instead of converter, that I gave the answer I did. So, another answer to the question is yes, if and only if the cable converter that he has is one of the IF type converters. If it is one of the baseband type converters (Zenith Z-Tac, etc), then it won't work. Baseband converters lose the MTS information when demodulating the audio. I help this helps clear up the thing a little more. -- ihnp4------\ harvard-\ \ Mr. Video seismo!uwvax!nicmad!brown topaz-/ / decvax------/
fish@ihlpm.UUCP (Bob Fishell) (01/29/86)
> > > > I was thinking of buying the stereo tv receiver from radio shack > > I have cable, so the easiest way to hook > > it up would be to run cable from the remote tuner to it (so the stereo > > tv receiver would always be tuned to Ch. 3). > > Would this work? > Probably not as most cable converters have a CH3 or Ch4 modulator in them > which are not stereo. The cable industry is not ready for stereo. > Before you purchase the receiver, You should call your cable company and > ask a knowledgable technician if it would work with their system. There > is no standard as far as cable companies go and the easiest way to find out > if yours is stereo compatible is to call them. > The remote-control CATV tuner from Universal does the job just fine, I know because mine is hooked up this way. The stereo comes through just fine on Ch3, broken down from the local cable channels for NBC and PBS. The Universal was advertised here for about $80.00 a couple of weeks ago, and DAK carries it. MTV is in mono; I have to pick it up via the FM for stereo. __ / \ \__/ Bob Fishell ihnp4!ihlpm!fish -- __ / \ \__/ Bob Fishell ihnp4!ihlpm!fish
gary@think.ARPA (Gary Sabot) (01/31/86)
In article <476@tekcbi.UUCP> jimb@tekcbi.UUCP (Jim Boland) writes: >> >> I was thinking of buying the stereo tv receiver from radio shack >> I have cable, so the easiest way to hook >> it up would be to run cable from the remote tuner to it (so the stereo >> tv receiver would always be tuned to Ch. 3). >> Would this work? >Probably not as most cable converters have a CH3 or Ch4 modulator in them >which are not stereo. Not true! The General Instrument/Jerrold converter boxes don't convert RF to video and then modulate the video on to channel 3-- they mix (subtract) the incoming signal with a frequency that depends on what channel you want to watch. The mixing frequency is chosen so that the output comes out on channel 3 or 4. MTS stereo successfuly passes through these boxes. Of course, sometimes the MTS signal is lost by the cable company in their own equipment, and thus never makes it to your converter box.
brown@nicmad.UUCP (02/01/86)
In article <476@tekcbi.UUCP> jimb@tekcbi.UUCP (Jim Boland) writes: >> >> I was thinking of buying the stereo tv receiver from radio shack >> I have cable, so the easiest way to hook >> it up would be to run cable from the remote tuner to it (so the stereo >> tv receiver would always be tuned to Ch. 3). >> Would this work? >Probably not as most cable converters have a CH3 or Ch4 modulator in them >which are not stereo. The cable industry is not ready for stereo. >Before you purchase the receiver, You should call your cable company and >ask a knowledgable technician if it would work with their system. There >is no standard as far as cable companies go and the easiest way to find out >if yours is stereo compatible is to call them. Any cable converter that is a full bandwidth IF converter, WILL pass the MTS signal. If the converter is a baseband converter, like some of the Zenith converters, the MTS signal will be lost. >> Also (i know this will probably be different with many cable companies, >> but...) do cable companies that broadcast station in FM simulcast (e.g. MTV, >> Movie Channel, etc..) also broadcast them in stereo for the radio shack >> device to pick up? > >NO > >The only guarantee (??) you get for using the R.S. (or other) decoder is that >it will work if you connect it to an outside antenna and pick up the stations >over the air. Of course, it will only work on those stations actually >broadcasting in stereo. False!!!!!. I have such a converter and it works just fine on cable. As long as the stations on the cable are within the channel 2 through 13 range, which they are on my system. >With cable, all bets are off. Again false. That was something that lots of cable people said. But, most found out that it does work. Our cable company is one of them where it does work and just fine, mind you. Our cable company and the stations involved are working on getting the equipment necessary to get MTS stereo via direct connection with the station. Our cable company has direct feeds from the local stations, so when their transmitter dies, the cable viewers still get the picture. Temporarily that is not true for the 2 stereo stations, as an antenna is needed, by the cable company, to get the MTS signal. The receivers they have are IF type receivers, so the MTS signal is passed to the cable subscribers by default. >Note: FM simulcast is NOT stereo TV. This one is true. -- ihnp4------\ harvard-\ \ Mr. Video seismo!uwvax!nicmad!brown topaz-/ / decvax------/
jimb@tekcbi.UUCP (Jim Boland) (02/04/86)
Now hold on and wait just one minute Mr. Video. I really didn't want to do this over the net but I think a few points need to be made. First, don't read into an article what is not there. Second, don't take things out of context. Now, let's review one last time - The original posting was: > >> I was thinking of buying the stereo tv receiver from radio shack > >> I have cable, so the easiest way to hook > >> it up would be to run cable from the remote tuner to it (so the stereo > >> tv receiver would always be tuned to Ch. 3). > >> Would this work? He did not mention anything about HIS cable company's converter box. Therefore, we know nothing about his cable system. So ----- I said: > >Probably not as most cable converters have a CH3 or Ch4 modulator in them > >which are not stereo. The cable industry is not ready for stereo. > >Before you purchase the receiver, You should call your cable company and > >ask a knowledgable technician if it would work with their system. There > >is no standard as far as cable companies go and the easiest way to find out > >if yours is stereo compatible is to call them. Note that I said "most", not all. Perhaps most was a bad choice of words. Maybe I should have said "some". Remember, we are not just solving the problem for the original poster, but we are answering some questions of general interest for the net. Therefore, when given a general question, a generalized answer should be given. We don't want someone across the country with a different system to assume that because it works for one it will surely work for him, also. Then another posting disagreed with me and said: > Any cable converter that is a full bandwidth IF converter, WILL pass the MTS > signal. If the converter is a baseband converter, like some of the Zenith > converters, the MTS signal will be lost. which really supports my above statement that some (most - again, maybe a bad choice of words on my part which I apologize for) cable systems will not work with the R/S box. > > >> Also (i know this will probably be different with many cable companies, > >> but...) do cable companies that broadcast station in FM simulcast (e.g. MTV, > >> Movie Channel, etc..) also broadcast them in stereo for the radio shack > >> device to pick up? > > > >NO > > > >The only guarantee (??) you get for using the R.S. (or other) decoder is that > >it will work if you connect it to an outside antenna and pick up the stations > >over the air. Of course, it will only work on those stations actually > >broadcasting in stereo. > > False!!!!!. Come on, now. Read what I said. I said the ONLY guarantee. is that it works with off the air stations broadcasting in mts stereo. That is true. It does not say it won't work with cable systems that do pass on the mts signal intact. It just says that - for sure, it will work with off the air stations. >I have such a converter and it works just fine on cable. As long > as the stations on the cable are within the channel 2 through 13 range, which > they are on my system. > That's nice. You happen to be in an area where it happens to work. Not all people do. What if your only station with mts were on Ch. 18?. You imply that it wouldn't work with your cable because only the VHF stations are intact. > >With cable, all bets are off. > > Again false. I don't think so. Today, at least. >That was something that lots of cable people said. But, most Now you are using the word "most" > found out that it does work. Our cable company is one of them where it does > work and just fine, mind you. Our cable company and the stations involved > are working on getting the equipment necessary to get MTS stereo via direct > connection with the station. Our cable company has direct feeds from the > local stations, so when their transmitter dies, the cable viewers still get > the picture. Temporarily that is not true for the 2 stereo stations, as > an antenna is needed, by the cable company, to get the MTS signal. The > receivers they have are IF type receivers, so the MTS signal is passed to > the cable subscribers by default. > As you indicate, some (note proper choice here) cable companies are starting to realize that mts is growing fast and are interested in finding ways to make the system work. However, remember that many cable systems are choosing (have been choosing?) to go the way of the addressable decoder ala Zenith Ztac types which tend to demodulate everything to video and audio and then remodulate on their own el cheapo modulator to your set. (why can't they just provide video and audio outs for those of us who care?) Those modulators do not have mts exciters in them. Once again, I will restate my conclusion: He should call his cable company and ask them whether it would work or not. (a good tech, not a secretary). They can answer the questions for his situation better than all our discussion here. That is true for other people on other systems, also. > >Note: FM simulcast is NOT stereo TV. > > This one is true. > -- Hey, at least we found one thing we openly agree upon.
msc@saber.UUCP (Mark Callow) (02/06/86)
> make the system work. However, remember that many cable systems are choosing > (have been choosing?) to go the way of the addressable decoder ala Zenith > Ztac types which tend to demodulate everything to video and audio and then > remodulate on their own el cheapo modulator to your set. (why can't they > just provide video and audio outs for those of us who care?) Those modulators > do not have mts exciters in them. My Zenith ZTAC has video and audio outputs. Neither the picture nor the sound (the sound is louder -- big deal) are much better though. I don't have any MTS equipment so maybe someone can answer this for me. Is this audio output a baseband audio signal or is it at the audio IF. In other words, is there a chance of it containing the MTS signal? -- From the TARDIS of Mark Callow msc@saber.uucp, sun!saber!msc@decwrl.dec.com ...{ihnp4,sun}!saber!msc "Boards are long and hard and made of wood"
brown@nicmad.UUCP (02/10/86)
In article <1929@saber.UUCP> msc@saber.UUCP (Mark Callow) writes: >My Zenith ZTAC has video and audio outputs. Neither the picture nor >the sound (the sound is louder -- big deal) are much better though. >I don't have any MTS equipment so maybe someone can answer this for >me. Is this audio output a baseband audio signal or is it at the audio >IF. In other words, is there a chance of it containing the MTS >signal? The audio output (and video) is baseband. Sorry, the MTS signal is gone forever. -- ihnp4------\ harvard-\ \ Mr. Video seismo!uwvax!nicmad!brown topaz-/ / decvax------/
brown@nicmad.UUCP (02/10/86)
[The author sent me a copy of this posting. I am answering it on the net,] [because I too feel a point is necessary. Because of system problems, I ] [have been unable to answer, until now. ] In article <492@tekcbi.UUCP> jimb@tekcbi.UUCP (Jim Boland) writes: >Now hold on and wait just one minute Mr. Video. >I really didn't want to do this over the net but I think a few points need >to be made. > >First, don't read into an article what is not there. >Second, don't take things out of context. >Now, let's review one last time - >The original posting was: >>>> I was thinking of buying the stereo tv receiver from radio shack >>>> I have cable, so the easiest way to hook >>>> it up would be to run cable from the remote tuner to it (so the stereo >>>> tv receiver would always be tuned to Ch. 3). >>>> Would this work? > >He did not mention anything about HIS cable company's converter box. Therefore, >we know nothing about his cable system. So ----- >I said: >>>Probably not as most cable converters have a CH3 or Ch4 modulator in them >>>which are not stereo. The cable industry is not ready for stereo. >>>Before you purchase the receiver, You should call your cable company and >>>ask a knowledgable technician if it would work with their system. There >>>is no standard as far as cable companies go and the easiest way to find out >>>if yours is stereo compatible is to call them. At this point I have to say that you read something into is posting. He said "tuner", not what you said, "converter". Tuners and converters and not the same. They may end up giving the same results, but they are different. I answered based upon the fact that it was called a tuner. >Note that I said "most", not all. Perhaps most was a bad choice of words. >Maybe I should have said "some". Remember, we are not just solving the problem >for the original poster, but we are answering some questions of general >interest for the net. Therefore, when given a general question, a generalized >answer should be given. We don't want someone across the country with a >different system to assume that because it works for one it will surely work >for him, also. True. When I also didn't talk about converters, I didn't, therefore, give a generalized answer. See next paragraph. >Then another posting disagreed with me and said: >>Any cable converter that is a full bandwidth IF converter, WILL pass the MTS >>signal. If the converter is a baseband converter, like some of the Zenith >>converters, the MTS signal will be lost. >which really supports my above statement that some (most - again, maybe a bad >choice of words on my part which I apologize for) cable systems will not work >with the R/S box. Correct. But, like I said in the original posting, I was talking about a tuner. All tuners have video and audio out, so the RF modulator will not contain the MTS information. The Zenith Ztac converter is really a cheap tuner. Why, because it provides baseband video and audio, as well as an RF converter. Zenith calls them converters. Bad name on Zenith's part. >>>> Also (i know this will probably be different with many cable companies, >>>> but...) do cable companies that broadcast station in FM simulcast (e.g. MTV, >>>> Movie Channel, etc..) also broadcast them in stereo for the radio shack >>>> device to pick up? >>> >>>NO >>> >>>The only guarantee (??) you get for using the R.S. (or other) decoder is that >>>it will work if you connect it to an outside antenna and pick up the stations >>>over the air. Of course, it will only work on those stations actually >>>broadcasting in stereo. >> >>False!!!!!. > >Come on, now. Read what I said. I said the ONLY guarantee. is that it works >with off the air stations broadcasting in mts stereo. That is true. It does >not say it won't work with cable systems that do pass on the mts signal intact. >It just says that - for sure, it will work with off the air stations. Sorry. You are correct here. I should have given a better reason for my saying false. It is true that it will only work, for sure, if you use it for over-the-air reception. Cable reception depends upon the equipment used at the cable's head-end. It has been posted here that even calling the cable company doesn't do any good. Some of the office workers don't have any idea what is going on. One poster said he called the cable company about MTS and was told that it wouldn't work. He later found out that it does. >>I have such a converter and it works just fine on cable. As long >>as the stations on the cable are within the channel 2 through 13 range, which >>they are on my system. >> >That's nice. You happen to be in an area where it happens to work. Not all >people do. What if your only station with mts were on Ch. 18?. You imply that >it wouldn't work with your cable because only the VHF stations are intact. If a MTS station was on cable 18, I would connect up the UHF up-converter that I have. It moves all of the cable channels to UHF, which the Radio Shack unit can receive. Problem solved. BTW, I do have such a station. A PBS station imported from Milwaukee. I don't care for the stuff it has is stereo, so I haven't done it. >>>With cable, all bets are off. >> >>Again false. >I don't think so. Today, at least. You said "all bets are off". I am saying false to the word ALL. Because it is false. ALL bets are not off. There are cable companies who do have MTS signals on their systems. >>That was something that lots of cable people said. But, most >Now you are using the word "most" Sorry :-) >>found out that it does work. Our cable company is one of them where it does >>work and just fine, mind you. Our cable company and the stations involved >>are working on getting the equipment necessary to get MTS stereo via direct >>connection with the station. Our cable company has direct feeds from the >>local stations, so when their transmitter dies, the cable viewers still get >>the picture. Temporarily that is not true for the 2 stereo stations, as >>an antenna is needed, by the cable company, to get the MTS signal. The >>receivers they have are IF type receivers, so the MTS signal is passed to >>the cable subscribers by default. >> >As you indicate, some (note proper choice here) cable companies are starting >to realize that mts is growing fast and are interested in finding ways to >make the system work. However, remember that many cable systems are choosing >(have been choosing?) to go the way of the addressable decoder ala Zenith >Ztac types which tend to demodulate everything to video and audio and then >remodulate on their own el cheapo modulator to your set. (why can't they >just provide video and audio outs for those of us who care?) Those modulators >do not have mts exciters in them. >Once again, I will restate my conclusion: He should call his cable company >and ask them whether it would work or not. (a good tech, not a secretary). >They can answer the questions for his situation better than all our discussion >here. That is true for other people on other systems, also. I agree. Call a head-end technician. He could also get the Radio Shack unit and try it out. The nice thing about Radio Shack is that if you don't like it you can take it back. Nothing beats trying it out for oneself. >>>Note: FM simulcast is NOT stereo TV. >> >>This one is true. >>-- >Hey, at least we found one thing we openly agree upon. I would like to publicly state here that I have nothing against the poster. I am not flaming him, nor do I believe that he has flamed me. We each have our set of opinions (at least we are allowed to have opinions in this country) about this subject. My hope is that you netters have gained something from our round-table discussion. -- ihnp4------\ harvard-\ \ Mr. Video seismo!uwvax!nicmad!brown topaz-/ / decvax------/
jimb@tekcbi.UUCP (Jim Boland) (02/15/86)
I mentioned to Mr. Video > >First, don't read into an article what is not there. > >Second, don't take things out of context. To which he replied > At this point I have to say that you read something into his posting. He said > "tuner", not what you said, "converter". Tuners and converters and not the > same. They may end up giving the same results, but they are different. Yep. I'll have to admit you were correct. I mistakenly equated the two and shouldn't have. :-) Sorry 'bout that. Sure wasn't intentional, but I can see where your coming from and I'll agree.> > .... We each have > our set of opinions (at least we are allowed to have opinions in this country) > about this subject. And now that we've explained ourselves, I believe we are actually in agreement on all points. (I've not repeated the part about "All bets are off", but I accept your reasoning. Again, I shouldn't have said "All"). 'nuff said.