joseph@panix.uucp (Joseph R. Skoler) (05/20/91)
This question might have been answered before. If so, I apologize. Also, if there's another place to ask this question, I'd appreciate someone letting me know about it. I'm associated with a large (nationwide) tractor-trailer distributor, and would like to know what benefit it would be to the company for it to get Internet access. This is really a broader question of what benefits all companies have by being connected. I suppose one benefit is the connectivity between each of its branches. But, I assume there's much more to be gained. Also, how does a large corporation become connected? Would local colleges be willing (in general) to give out some internet addresses? Thanks very much, Joseph R. Skoler UUCP: cmcl2!panix!kc2yu!joseph UUCP: panix!joseph BITNET: skohc@cunyvm.bitnet INTERNET: ak526@cleveland.freenet.edu AMPR NET: kc2yu@kc2yu.ampr.org [44.68.32.56] PBBS: kc2yu@nn2z.nj.usa.na
jona@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Jon Alperin) (05/21/91)
In article <1991May20.150134.11699@panix.uucp>, joseph@panix.uucp (Joseph R. Skoler) writes: |> |> |> This question might have been answered before. If so, I apologize. |> |> |> I'm associated with a large (nationwide) tractor-trailer distributor, |> and would like to know what benefit it would be to the company for it |> to get Internet access. Internet cannot be used for business purposes. It is mainly for research and educational purposes. It is also heavily used by system administrators all over the world, as well as developers of software, to exchange ideas and post problems which they cannot solve (and yes,...there is a lot of personal stuff that flows back and forth). You could use the internet for e-mail gateways, but I wouldn't trust sensitive business items (or stuff that you can't afford to lose during a transmission). |> |> Joseph R. Skoler |> |> UUCP: cmcl2!panix!kc2yu!joseph |> UUCP: panix!joseph |> BITNET: skohc@cunyvm.bitnet |> INTERNET: ak526@cleveland.freenet.edu |> AMPR NET: kc2yu@kc2yu.ampr.org [44.68.32.56] |> PBBS: kc2yu@nn2z.nj.usa.na -- Jon Alperin Bell Communications Research ---> Internet: jona@iscp.bellcore.com ---> Voicenet: (908) 699-8674 ---> UUNET: uunet!bcr!jona * All opinions and stupid questions are my own *
ted@nmsu.edu (Ted Dunning) (05/21/91)
In article <1991May20.170041.12885@bellcore.bellcore.com> jona@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Jon Alperin) mistakenly writes: In article <1991May20.150134.11699@panix.uucp>, joseph@panix.uucp (Joseph R. Skoler) writes: |> I ... would like to know what benefit it would be to the company for it |> to get Internet access. Internet cannot be used for business purposes. It is mainly for research and educational purposes. ... You could use the internet for e-mail gateways, but I wouldn't trust sensitive business items (or stuff that you can't afford to lose during a transmission). in fact, the Internet can be used for whatever you want. Certain _parts_ of the internet such as the NSFnet are funded by the NSF on the condition that they be used non-commercially, and certain other parts are private (such as DEC's or HP's internal networks), but the Internet is not a monolithic entity with a single consistent policy on acceptable use. There are a number of commercial suppliers of internet access who would be happy to provide Internet access to virtually anyone. -- if feeling bad is a justification for not living, then living is a justification for feeling good.
jona@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Jon Alperin) (05/21/91)
oops,.... I was thinking of usenet, not the internet... I guess I need to change my disclaimer...... -- Jon Alperin Bell Communications Research ---> Internet: jona@iscp.bellcore.com ---> Voicenet: (908) 699-8674 ---> UUNET: uunet!bcr!jona * All opinions and stupid questions are my own * ^^^^^^^^^ answers too!
rbraun@spdcc.COM (Rich Braun) (05/21/91)
Indeed, there are several companies (NearNet, et al) which have recently gotten together to provide new backbones for commercial Internet service. These backbones only provide regional service at the present time, but my guess is that world-wide non-restricted service will arrive soon. If your network traffic is confined to, for example, the NearNet backbone (and avoids NSFnet), you only have to play by the rules of NearNet, and not of the U.S. Government. I wouldn't try to use the Internet as a means of setting up dedicated business applications between branches of a company. (Things like credit-card transactions or manufacturing process control...) But for research purposes, it's great. -rich
birchall@pilot.njin.net (Official Random) (05/21/91)
Regarding setting things up between branches of a company, wouldn't the (hopefully-soon-to-be-in-use) ISDN be more effective for that anyway? I know McDonald's (the fastfood people) have been experimenting with ISDN around chicago.... But then again, that's more or less just taking Internet technology and applying it to the public service telephone network.... -sh -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Birchall [ Shag ] birchall@njin NJIN Official Random birchall@pilot.njin.net Promoting Alt.BBS.Internet, QuartzBBS/QuartzParadise, and clues for sale cheap.
barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) (05/21/91)
In article <1991May20.150134.11699@panix.uucp> joseph@panix.uucp (Joseph R. Skoler) writes: >I'm associated with a large (nationwide) tractor-trailer distributor, >and would like to know what benefit it would be to the company for it >to get Internet access. > >This is really a broader question of what benefits all companies have >by being connected. > >I suppose one benefit is the connectivity between each of its branches. >But, I assume there's much more to be gained. Yes, connectivity of branches is one benefit, although you could achieve this relatively easily with leased lines connecting your branches. And this would be more secure, since you wouldn't be sharing this network with lots of other people. One benefit of connecting to the Internet is professional management of the cross-country links, and potentially increased reliability. The Internet has many redundant paths, with the intent of providing almost full connectivity even when individual links are down. By connecting to the Internet you potentially gain data connectivity to other companies with which you do business. You also gain connectivity to organizations that provide access to databases or other services. Currently there aren't too many of these (things like Compuserve and Dow Jones are currently on dialup networks such as Tymnet and Telenet), but more are popping up. For those of us in the R&D industry, we get connectivity to universities. >Also, how does a large corporation become connected? Would local >colleges be willing (in general) to give out some internet addresses? In general, you can't just get Internet addresses from local colleges. They are generally connected to government-subsidized research & education networks, so their links can't be used for commercial purposes. Many of these networking providers also prohibit subscribers from reselling the service to third parties. There are a few commercial networking providers. The two I know of offhand are PSInet and Alternet. Sorry, I don't know phone numbers offhand. -- Barry Margolin, Thinking Machines Corp. barmar@think.com {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
mav@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Vance) (05/21/91)
Does anybody know anything about Public Access to the Internet? I'm looking for public access telnet servers or something with the same capabilities in the Washington, D.C. and Detroit, MI areas. Basically I just want to be able to log on to my account here at NU while I'm in DC or Detroit without having to rack up incredible long distance charges. All solutions are accepted. Please reply by e-mail. Thanks. -Michael Vance Northwestern University mav@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
mcovingt@athena.cs.uga.edu (Michael A. Covington) (05/22/91)
A simple solution for a small corporation would be to use MCI Mail, which can send and receive messages from the Internet. MCI Mail is very easy for beginners to use. -- ------------------------------------------------------- Michael A. Covington | Artificial Intelligence Programs The University of Georgia | Athens, GA 30602 U.S.A. -------------------------------------------------------
chip@osh3.OSHA.GOV (Chip Yamasaki) (05/22/91)
In <May.20.18.55.12.1991.21239@pilot.njin.net> birchall@pilot.njin.net (Official Random) writes: >Regarding setting things up between branches of a company, wouldn't the >(hopefully-soon-to-be-in-use) ISDN be more effective for that anyway? I >know McDonald's (the fastfood people) have been experimenting with ISDN >around chicago.... > > But then again, that's more or less just taking Internet technology and >applying it to the public service telephone network.... And how about non-research government applications. Could we use a UUNET connection, usenet links and possibly the Internet (and its companions) to act as a gateway between users in a government agency and the outside (like MCI-Mail, etc.) without meeting with public (or Internet) scrutiny? -- -- Charles "Chip" Yamasaki chip@oshcomm.osha.gov
mdf@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark D Freeman) (05/22/91)
In <1991May21.182416.12784@athena.cs.uga.edu> mcovingt@athena.cs.uga.edu (Michael A. Covington) writes: >A simple solution for a small corporation would be to use MCI Mail, >which can send and receive messages from the Internet. CompuServe, my employer, also offers an email gateway to the Internet, along with AT&T Mail, and soon to X.400 and MHS-based LAN email systems. -- Mark D. Freeman M.FREEMAN@csi.CompuServe.COM Manager, Microcomputer Services 70003,4277 CompuServe; Columbus, OH Posted from a guest account (614) 457-8600 x2818 at The Ohio State University
joshua@Spies.COM (Joshua Geller) (05/22/91)
In article <124060@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> mdf@tut.cis.osu-state.edu (Mark D. Freeman) writes: |>In <1991May21.182416.12784@athena.cs.uga.edu> mcovingt@athena.cs.uga.edu |>(Michael A. Covington) writes: |>>A simple solution for a small corporation would be to use MCI Mail, |>>which can send and receive messages from the Internet. |>CompuServe, my employer, also offers an email gateway to the Internet, |>along with AT&T Mail, and soon to X.400 and MHS-based LAN email |>systems. Compu$erve, your employer, periodically bounces massive quantities of mail all across the internet, and BITNET etc etc. I have here in my account a 68+ kbyte file that consists of nothing but bounced mail messages which were posted by me to a mailing list, and bounced by Compu$erve, your employer, from the one Compu$erve (your employer) subscriber who is on said mailing list. Now multiply that times posts by users perhaps a thousand per week for this mailing list alone). Now how many subscribers do you have who use mailing lists on the internet? Now how much are you charging them not to receive their mail? Now how much >public< bandwidth are you wasting? Compu$erve, your employer, should straighten up their act before you talk about their 'email gateway to the internet'. josh
rbraun@spdcc.COM (Rich Braun) (05/22/91)
mdf@tut.cis.osu-state.edu (Mark D. Freeman) writes: >>A simple solution for a small corporation would be to use MCI Mail, >>which can send and receive messages from the Internet. > >CompuServe, my employer, also offers an email gateway to the Internet... As do Telenet (not my employer), uunet, et al. Probably there's a heading in the Yellow Pages for this, by now. Ask around. UUCP connections to friendly local Unix shops are generally a lot cheaper than what these commercial companies will charge, if your usage is low. Keep in mind that CompuServe, MCI Mail, uunet, and Telenet offer services which bear little resemblance to the full suite of Internet services. The gateways presently tend to be e-mail only, and don't support real-time connections, high-volume file transfers, and so on. They also don't carry netnews, to my knowledge. This will all change in the not-too-distant future, I would expect. -rich
chip@osh3.OSHA.GOV (Chip Yamasaki) (05/23/91)
In <7607@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> rbraun@spdcc.COM (Rich Braun) writes: >mdf@tut.cis.osu-state.edu (Mark D. Freeman) writes: >>>A simple solution for a small corporation would be to use MCI Mail, >>>which can send and receive messages from the Internet. >> >>CompuServe, my employer, also offers an email gateway to the Internet... >As do Telenet (not my employer), uunet, et al. Probably there's a heading >in the Yellow Pages for this, by now. Ask around. UUCP connections to >friendly local Unix shops are generally a lot cheaper than what these >commercial companies will charge, if your usage is low. >Keep in mind that CompuServe, MCI Mail, uunet, and Telenet offer >services which bear little resemblance to the full suite of Internet >services. The gateways presently tend to be e-mail only, and don't >support real-time connections, high-volume file transfers, and so on. >They also don't carry netnews, to my knowledge. This will all change >in the not-too-distant future, I would expect. I certainly wouldn't group UUNET in this category. Check the path on this response. I am getting my netnews feed through UUNET, and I understand that this is what their primary purpose is. As for high volume transfers and real-time connections, don't include UUNET here either. They offer a connection to AlterNet which is IP connected to the Internet (I believe). That's the same IP services that the Internet provides. They cetainly would be happy to transfer as much data as you are willing to pay the connect charges (a reasonable $2.60/hr) for. Where real-time is concerned, I sent an E-Mail message to The Netherlands and was thrilled to geta response back in an hour. If I had an AlterNet connection it would have been 45 minutes sooner. I know this isn't real-time, but the message made it from the senders box to UUNET through a real-time SMTP relay and UUNET can't help it if I can't afford AlterNet :-). You are right on Compuserve (although they offer so much on their own), and MCI Mail (they have a LOT of corporate customers already subscribing though). I did think that Telenet was real-time though. Basically, I think all of these services have their own merit and are far superior to a plain old 300 bps modem and dumb terminal. -- -- Charles "Chip" Yamasaki chip@oshcomm.osha.gov
mdf@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark D Freeman) (05/27/91)
In <1991May22.050647.11202@Spies.COM> joshua@Spies.COM (Joshua Geller) writes: >In article <124060@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> mdf@tut.cis.osu-state.edu (Mark D. >Freeman) writes: >|>In <1991May21.182416.12784@athena.cs.uga.edu> mcovingt@athena.cs.uga.edu >|>(Michael A. Covington) writes: >|>>A simple solution for a small corporation would be to use MCI Mail, >|>>which can send and receive messages from the Internet. > >|>CompuServe, my employer, also offers an email gateway to the Internet, >|>along with AT&T Mail, and soon to X.400 and MHS-based LAN email >|>systems. > >Compu$erve, your employer, periodically bounces massive quantities of mail all >across the internet, and BITNET etc etc. Josh, I'm sorryt you've had such trouble with our Internet Gateway. The following comments should be understood in the context that I don't speak for CompuServe in an official capacity here. (Basically, I just coordinate our in-house PCs, and have nothing whatsoever to do with our Internet gateway.) Our Internet gateway is a system at the Ohio State University which has had a lot of reliability problems. It was put together (a few executables here, a few huge shell scripts there...) as an experiment. It worked so well that it became a product. The product became so successful that it is overwhelming the resources originally assigned to it. I am certainly not assigning the blame to OSU, as no one knew how much or how fast the volume would grow. However, they (obviously) cannot reliably handle our current volume for us. So, we are working full-speed to bring the gateway in-house, where we hope to have it show the same > 99.96% reliability as we achieve with the rest of our systems. I'm not sure, but I think we'll have a 56Kb link from a set of redundant UNIX boxes in one of our computer rooms directly to uunet. As these systems will be dedicated to our email gateway, service should be much better than our current setup. With luck, the changeover will be completed in July. - Mark -- Mark D. Freeman M.FREEMAN@csi.CompuServe.COM Manager, Microcomputer Services 70003,4277 CompuServe; Columbus, OH Posted from a guest account (614) 457-8600 x2818 at The Ohio State University
lee@wang.com (Lee Story) (05/29/91)
In article <1991May20.150134.11699@panix.uucp> joseph@panix.uucp (Joseph R. Skoler) writes:
I'm associated with a large (nationwide) tractor-trailer distributor,
and would like to know what benefit it would be to the company for it
to get Internet access.
[....]
Also, how does a large corporation become connected?
I've read some of the other responses to this, and am surprised that most
posters are as ignorant of the rules and mechanics as I am. Here goes:
Advantages:
1. Fast and pretty reliable email to virtually all universities and
computer/communications R&D-related companies, plus most smaller
colleges and many other corporations.
2. INTERACTIVE access to public data archives (uunet, government, many
colleges and universities) by ftp. This greatly improves on access
by email only (getting a directory listing one day, downloading
through a mail server the next, or paying a service like uunet to
perform the retrieval).
3. Possible high-speed net news feed (though you'll have to arrange for
this IN ADDITION to the Internet access).
Contacts: (these folks might be able to sell you service, or point you
to the right place)
1. AlterNet, run by UUNET Comm. Services, phone 703-876-5050, email
info@uunet.uu.net (I'm not sure that AlterNet is directly
interconnected with the research networks. Can someone confirm?
UUNET also offers net news services.)
2. NEARnet, phone 617-873-8730, email jrugo@nic.near.net
(Research users only?)
3. PSInet, (no address)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lee Story (lee@wang.com) Wang Laboratories, Inc.
(Boston and New Hampshire AMC, and Merrimack Valley Paddlers)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ebersman@uunet.uu.net (Paul Ebersman) (05/29/91)
In <LEE.91May28150915@meercat.wang.com> lee@wang.com (Lee Story) writes: >1. AlterNet, run by UUNET Comm. Services, phone 703-876-5050, email > info@uunet.uu.net (I'm not sure that AlterNet is directly > interconnected with the research networks. Can someone confirm? > UUNET also offers net news services.) We are connected to the NSFNet backbone via redundant T1's and give Internet connectivity to any AlterNet customer, pending NSF approval. All AlterNet customers who have wanted Internet so far have been approved. -- Paul A. Ebersman @ UUNET Communications uunet!ebersman or ebersman@uunet.uu.net The difference between theory and practice in practice is greater than the difference between theory and practice in theory.
rbraun@spdcc.COM (Rich Braun) (05/29/91)
lee@wang.com (Lee Story) writes: >2. NEARnet, phone 617-873-8730, email jrugo@nic.near.net > (Research users only?) NEARnet stands for "New England Academic & Research Network", though it's not limited to research only. Their January marketing blurb includes in its target audience "development staff in industry" and "anyone whose work requires interacting with members of [the research environment]". It is working in cooperation with some commercial enterprises which have little to do with research, so I suspect there really isn't a limitation, provided that non-research traffic is limited to NEARnet itself. It was created to provide high-speed 10M microwave links which didn't exist before the last couple of years, between the six hub sites (Boston University, Harvard, MIT, Lincoln Laboratories, Prospect Hill, and BBN) and others which have more recently joined. Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with NEARnet, so take these words with a grain of salt. I'm keeping in touch with those who are developing a 100M fiber-optic network in the Prospect Hill industrial park, which should provide future access to NEARnet for my company. -rich (P.S. Hi Lee, welcome to The Net! How's Wang?)
rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) (06/03/91)
In <7679@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> rbraun@spdcc.COM (Rich Braun) writes: >provided that non-research traffic is limited to NEARnet itself. It >was created to provide high-speed 10M microwave links which didn't >exist before the last couple of years... NEARnet and Alternet now/will soon have a leased line, so commercial traffic can be sent around. It's not limited to just academic and research organizations. Nearnet was created because when the NSFNet proposal went around, everyone in the area waited for MIT to sign up to create the regional network in this area. MIT was busy building Athena at that time, so ... the ball got dropped. /r$, who has worked with the BBN NEARnet folks (they're in the same department), but is not a member of the group. -- Please send comp.sources.unix-related mail to rsalz@uunet.uu.net. Use a domain-based address or give alternate paths, or you may lose out.
bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein) (06/03/91)
>>provided that non-research traffic is limited to NEARnet itself. It >>was created to provide high-speed 10M microwave links which didn't >>exist before the last couple of years... >NEARnet and Alternet now/will soon have a leased line, so commercial traffic >can be sent around. It's not limited to just academic and research organizations. I (and some others) put in the first 10Mb microwave link between BU and Harvard. It pre-dated NEARnet and was mainly just a spur of the moment experiment: We (BU) happened to have two of those dishes and accouterments which were originally slated for some other project (maybe it was to hook up the BU Med campus with the main one? I forget, it's not important.) Lew Law and Scott Bradner at Harvard should get credit for making their end happen. Kent England and staff at BU did a lot of the slog-work to get the dishes installed and working. The NEARnet/Alternet line is installed and just awaiting some router setup, should be up "real soon now". The T1 runs out of my office to MIT, so I hear about this constantly. >Nearnet was created because when the NSFNet proposal went around, everyone >in the area waited for MIT to sign up to create the regional network in >this area. Yeah, but they rejected my original proposed name, The New England Research and Development Network (NERDnet), too bad. I don't particularly remember that story you tell, but perhaps it's true. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@world.std.com | uunet!world!bzs Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD