jona@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Jon Alperin) (06/13/91)
You know.... When I was a student, I felt this exact same way. If in the business world we are so often called upon to work in a group setting, and many large scale computer applications require the interactions and teamwork of many people (which includes the liberal re-use of code written by others) what makes the eductaional system continually work at the opposite goals. Is the real goal of the educational system to prepare students for PhD's in research, or to prepare them with the skills necessary to life a comfortable life? Yeah, I know...this probably doesn't belong in the group. But I wanted to say it anyway. -- Jon Alperin Bell Communications Research ---> Internet: jona@iscp.bellcore.com ---> Voicenet: (908) 699-8674 ---> UUNET: uunet!bcr!jona * All opinions and stupid questions are my own *
jc@raven.bu.edu (James Cameron) (06/13/91)
[...This is in regards to the original post as well...] >>>>> On 12 Jun 91 21:48:05 GMT, jona@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Jon Alperin) said: |> You know.... |> When I was a student, I felt this exact same way. If in the business |> world we |> are so often called upon to work in a group setting, and many large scale ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |> computer applications require the interactions and teamwork of many people ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Exactly, for large DIVERSE programs interaction among varied specialists *is* obviously important and necessary. However, the assignments given to most undergrads were designed to teach them the basics of a language or topic, and then give them one last difficult task. Nothing beyond what they should know but one which is hard. |> (which includes the liberal re-use of code written by others) what makes |> the eductaional system continually work at the opposite goals. Is the real |> goal |> of the educational system to prepare students for PhD's in research, or to |> prepare them with the skills necessary to life a comfortable life? If you don't learn to be able to write your own code and to learn how to solve difficult problems, you will NOT be able to apply them to the work force. |> Yeah, I know...this probably doesn't belong in the group. But I wanted to |> say it anyway. Ditto! *8-) |> Jon Alperin Concerning the original post about seeing the students sending code for assignments through email - A postmaster is not suppose to deal with such things and should let it go. However, where do we stop? When the message found has something concerning the security and integrity of the system. Just a few thoughts.... jc -- -- James Cameron (jc@raven.bu.edu) Signal Processing and Interpretation Lab. Boston, Mass (617) 353-2879 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "But to risk we must, for the greatest hazard in life is to risk nothing. For the man or woman who risks nothing, has nothing, does nothing, is nothing." (Quote from the eulogy for the late Christa McAuliffe.)
tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Tim Chown) (06/14/91)
In <1991Jun12.214805.13737@bellcore.bellcore.com> jona@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Jon Alperin) writes: >You know.... > When I was a student, I felt this exact same way. If in the business world we >are so often called upon to work in a group setting, and many large scale >computer applications require the interactions and teamwork of many people >(which includes the liberal re-use of code written by others) what makes >the eductaional system continually work at the opposite goals. Is the real goal >of the educational system to prepare students for PhD's in research, or to >prepare them with the skills necessary to life a comfortable life? But a degree is awarded on the basis of *your* skills at design/coding and on *your* ability to interact in a group project, not somebody else's! A good CS degree has management/teamwork skills built in (ours does, quick plug ;-), but should still demand individual performance. Tim --
jona@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Jon Alperin) (06/17/91)
tim, Yes a good CS degree is based on MY individual skills. But a good educational system is based on by ability to interact, react, and be proactive in the "real world". How many administrators out there learned everything they needed to know through their degree? How many were prepared for the politics which are an integral part of administering large user systems? Does learning COBOL prepare one to assume the role of network administrator? Or prepare one to deal with the moral and privacy issues which pop up on related threads all across the net? I may have had an accounting class as part of my CS undergrad degree, but it sure didn't prepare me for the detailed budgeting which I must do in my job. Before I get flamed, I do realize that there are basic skills which are needed....my comments were more along the lines of what kinds of basic skills should be provided, and the direction our educational system is taking us. How many people get an education of "system administrator"? How many people out there really consider themselves "computer scientists" (or for that matter, just a "scientist")? There are many areas of specialization in our field, and we must learn to be adaptable to the latest and greatest, as well as knowledgeable about the "tried and true" in order to be effective. I found that my masters degree taught me no new information which I had not already received as an undergrad; it only refined certain topics to such a low level that my expertise would have been very narrow. My original posting tried to point out the large breadth of knowledge I am expected to have by the persons who pay me $$$$ every week. 'nuff said. -- Jon Alperin Bell Communications Research ---> Internet: jona@iscp.bellcore.com ---> Voicenet: (908) 699-8674 ---> UUNET: uunet!bcr!jona * All opinions and stupid questions are my own *