chip@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Charles H. Buchholtz) (06/14/91)
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: >Oh, and if you made a habit of leaving your car unlocked with the keys in the >ignition, and people came by and took it for a spin now and then, I suspect >the cops would just laugh at you for being such an idiot if you tried to >prosecute them. I know people who *always* leave their car unlocked with the keys in it. What if one of the kids has an accident, and the baby-sitter's car won't start? Of course, this is in rural Kansas, where the chance of your car being stolen is much less than in urban Philadelphia. There are neighborhoods where people don't lock their cars, bikes, houses, or anything. And the people there would get pretty pissed if you started "borrowing" their cars and bikes or breaking in to their homes. "Used to be, this was a good neighborhood, you could trust people." Suppose you're walking down the street, and it started raining very hard. Would you try a door, and if it was unlocked, go in out of the rain? Does it make a difference if the building was a private home, a church, or a fast-food restaurant? How do you tell a private home from a church or a restaurant? There is no simple rule about access to unlocked resources. We learn a set of cues which tell us what's appropriate and what isn't. In the Internet community, these standards are forming and are not completely understood. In a sense, we're discussing whether we want to live in rural Kansas or urban Philadelphia. So, when Anne walks uninvited into Bob's home, are you going to tell Anne that she should respect people's privacy, or tell Bob that he was stupid for not locking his house? Or mind your own business? What sort of community do you want to live in? I am posting as an individual, not as a representative of U. of P. Charles H. Buchholtz chip@eniac.seas.upenn.edu Systems Programmer School of Engineering University of Pennsylvania. -- Charles H. Buchholtz chip@ee.upenn.edu Systems Programmer (215) 898-2284 Department of Electrical Engineering 200 S. 33rd St, rm 328 University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104
pcg@aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi) (06/20/91)
On 14 Jun 91 14:29:21 GMT, chip@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Charles H. Buchholtz) said: [ ... on the analogy about a networked computer with a passwordless guest account being like an unlocked house where you cannot enter anyhow ... ] chip> There is no simple rule about access to unlocked resources. We learn chip> a set of cues which tell us what's appropriate and what isn't. But there are different cathegories of unlocked resources. Some unlocked resources are meant to be enjoyed by the public. chip> In the Internet community, these standards are forming and are not chip> completely understood. In a sense, we're discussing whether we chip> want to live in rural Kansas or urban Philadelphia. Yes and no. Whether locked or unlocked, whether in Kansas or Philadelphia, a private house can only be legally entered with permission or in a few other cases. But we have yet to decide that a computer on the internet is a private house rather than a supermarket or an office building or a library. To me Internet machines are service providers, they are not private homes. If I see an interesting bookshop I don't have, as a rule, to ask permission to enter and have a look around. Normally when you walk along a street you know which are private homes and which are shops you may enter to browse in. On the Internet you have no visual cues; a passwordless account called 'guest' or 'anonymous' is an invitation to browse, I would surmise. If that's not the case, I wonder what would a cue be that the system welcomes the public. Now question time: if all Internet hosts, including those that have accounts called 'guest' and 'anonymous' without a password, are to be presumed private systems, should we get a registered mail letter giving explicit access permission from any FTP server before attempting to use? Because surely unless somebody is explicitly authorized in writing, attempt to use that computer is trespass. -- Piercarlo Grandi | ARPA: pcg%uk.ac.aber@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Dept of CS, UCW Aberystwyth | UUCP: ...!mcsun!ukc!aber-cs!pcg Penglais, Aberystwyth SY23 3BZ, UK | INET: pcg@aber.ac.uk
chip@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Charles H. Buchholtz) (06/21/91)
In article pcg@aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi) writes: > >Normally when you walk along a street you know which are private homes >and which are shops you may enter to browse in. On the Internet you have >no visual cues; a passwordless account called 'guest' or 'anonymous' is >an invitation to browse, I would surmise. If that's not the case, I >wonder what would a cue be that the system welcomes the public. > >Now question time: if all Internet hosts, including those that have >accounts called 'guest' and 'anonymous' without a password, are to be >presumed private systems, should we get a registered mail letter giving >explicit access permission from any FTP server before attempting to use? > >Because surely unless somebody is explicitly authorized in writing, >attempt to use that computer is trespass. Where did "in writing" come from? When I walk down a street, I look at the advertisements (signs, displays, etc) on each building. If I see a sign saying, "Merit Bookstore", I may walk up and try the door, to see if they are open. If a building next to that has no signs on it, I won't try the door to see if maybe it's open and maybe it's a bookstore. If someone puts a big sign on their home saying, "We buy an sell used books", and then leaves the door unlocked, I think I would be excused for walking in thinking it was a bookstore. If Archie tells me that foo.bar.edu is the anonymous FTP source for wonderwidget, then I assume that this is a public service. If someone writes to comp.sys.sun and says that all the Sun patches are available on boff.baz.edu, and that you can log in as guest to browse through them, then I assume that that is a public service. Why even attempt an anonymous FTP or a guest login, unless you've been told that that system is providing some service that you might be interested in? I am posting as an individual, not as a representative of U. of P. Charles H. Buchholtz Systems Programmer chip@seas.upenn.edu School of Engineering and Applied Science University of Pennsylvania