gsm@mailgsm.mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) (06/03/91)
This is an explanation, not a flame, so please don't be insulted. :-) kimmel@umvlsi.ecs.umass.edu (Mathew Kimmel) said: >I just assumed it wasn't cool to post sources here, since I'd never seen >any. But, maybe I was wrong, so I'll give it a shot. No, you were right. Posting source files to this group causes problems for those of us who pay for our news distribution. Since 50k is the equivalent of SEVERAL WEEKS traffic in c.o.c, posting source files will cause many of us to have to drop this group. I am in the U.S. and use UUNET as my feed. I pay about one cent a k-bytes, but my news feed (which is a small one) still costs me over a hundered dollars a month. There are some people on this group (Joachim for example) who have to pay government owned telephone companies ridiculous (to us) rates for data telephone service. I think he pays close to a dollar a k-byte. Tetris is a nice game, it may be worth the 50 cents I paid to get it. BUT IT IS NOT WORTH $50.00 or even $5.00. Escpecially since it was not asked for. So please don't post sources here. If you want files from a different country make a personal arangment to email it or (heaven forbid) air-mail a diskette. You can send 1.2 megabytes of compressed (almost 2 megabytes) of data on one diskette for about $3.00 (including diskette). And it gets there in a week. MEA CULPA. I have posted large files to this group too. I am speaking from experience. :-) >Here is a shar of my port of Tetris, the popular falling-blocks game. >Enjoy, and please send me any questions/comments... I also have some complaints about how the file was sent: 1. It is too big to be edited with the STANDARD COHERENT EDITOR "me". 2. The STANDARD COHERENT MAKE "make" will not make it. If you are going to post something, please make it usable by everyone. And BTW, TETRIS, in any form, is not public domain. It is a copyrighted program. This program duplicates the "look and feel" of the copyrighted program. Also TETRIS is a registered trademark of AcademySoft-ELORG. Several people have gotten in trouble for having TETRIS clones on their bbs's. ------ Copyright (C) 1991, Geoffrey S. Mendelson. All Rights Reserved. Except for usenet followups, may not be reproduced without permsission. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | Computer Software Consulting | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Geoffrey S. Mendelson I've written and debugged almost eight thousand geoffrey@mendelson.com LINES of C code under Coherent in the last two mwcbbs!mailgsm!geoffrey months. :-) (215) 242-8712 And my wife still speaks to me!
kimmel@risky.ecs.umass.edu (Mathew Kimmel) (06/04/91)
In article <15479153@mailgsm.mendelson.com> gsm@mailgsm.mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes: >This is an explanation, not a flame, so please don't be insulted. :-) [stuff about posting sources deleted] Points taken, although other people (including Joachim) have disagreed with you. Would it be better to post Coherent sources on, say, alt.sources or comp.sources.misc? >>Here is a shar of my port of Tetris, the popular falling-blocks game. >>Enjoy, and please send me any questions/comments... > >I also have some complaints about how the file was sent: > > 1. It is too big to be edited with the STANDARD COHERENT EDITOR "me". Do you mean the shar file? I don't really see any other way to post multiple files. If you had trouble unsharring it, try getting the latest version of sh from mwcbbs, or cshar from piggy. If you mean one of the source files, I edited them all with no problem using elvis. > 2. The STANDARD COHERENT MAKE "make" will not make it. It did on my machine--I used the "make" provided with Coherent 3.1.0. -- Matt Kimmel University of Massachusetts Amherst, Mass. Internet: kimmel@umvlsi.ecs.umass.edu Bitnet: KIMMEL@UMAECS
joachim@jrix.radig.de (Joachim Riedel) (06/04/91)
gsm@mailgsm.mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes: >I am in the U.S. and use UUNET as my feed. I pay about one cent a k-bytes, but >my news feed (which is a small one) still costs me over a hundered dollars a >month. In Germany I now pay about $ 10 a month for a connection to a news feed. How much news I receive is my own problem and I only pay the standard telephone costs I also would have if I would talk too much. >There are some people on this group (Joachim for example) who have to pay >government owned telephone companies ridiculous (to us) rates for data >telephone service. I think he pays close to a dollar a k-byte. it's 30 cents a kilobyte but only for mail !! All foreign mail that passes the german backbone UNIDO costs that much but not news !! So (only speaking for me) I don't worry about 10 Megabytes of news, I only worry about 10 k of mail from the US. (10 MB news is $ 1 , 10 kilobyte mail is $ 3) One disadvantage of this group is that most of the stuff is forwarded to the Coherent mailing list and there most people have to pay for the mail. (That is one of the reasons I accept not to post sources here) Therefore I will never want to be a member of the mailing list. It will make me poor. News are just some seconds more with my Traily. But it is difficult to decide what to do. Most non-american Readers of this group do like sources posted to this group (especially KIWI-Country (New Zealand) and Germany). You can't satisfy everyone. > 2. The STANDARD COHERENT MAKE "make" will not make it. I have the standard buggy make of CO 3.1.0 and it worked without problems. Unshared it, make'd it and played for half an hour. Maybe there is a new bug in the make-update. Thinking about the mail from the mailing-list... we found a new bug in the update release of ...... There were several such things mentioned by Douglas Peterson of MWC. Joachim +---------------------------------------+-------+-------------------+-------+ | Joachim Riedel | @ @ | Don't worry, | @ @ | | Geschwister-Scholl-Strasse 48 | \_/ | keep smiling | \_/ | | D-6050 Offenbach am Main +-------+-------------------+-------+ | Tel. +49 69 85 62 25 | joachim@jrix.radig.de | +---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
explorer@iastate.edu (Graff Michael L) (06/04/91)
In <15479153@mailgsm.mendelson.com> gsm@mailgsm.mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes: >kimmel@umvlsi.ecs.umass.edu (Mathew Kimmel) said: >>I just assumed it wasn't cool to post sources here, since I'd never seen >>any. But, maybe I was wrong, so I'll give it a shot. >No, you were right. Posting source files to this group causes problems for >those of us who pay for our news distribution. Since 50k is the equivalent of >SEVERAL WEEKS traffic in c.o.c, posting source files will cause many of us >to have to drop this group. > >I am in the U.S. and use UUNET as my feed. I pay about one cent a k-bytes, but >my news feed (which is a small one) still costs me over a hundered dollars a >month. > >There are some people on this group (Joachim for example) who have to pay >government owned telephone companies ridiculous (to us) rates for data >telephone service. I think he pays close to a dollar a k-byte. > >So please don't post sources here. If you want files from a different country >make a personal arangment to email it or (heaven forbid) air-mail a diskette. What about those of us who DON'T have to pay for connections? Would it be all that bad to create a new newsgroup for sources and binaries? I hear half of you bitching about sources posted here, and the other half says ``do it!'' and be creating a new group we would make MOST of both groups happy! And E-mail is no solution. People along the way may still have to pay for it. >You can send 1.2 megabytes of compressed (almost 2 megabytes) of data on one >diskette for about $3.00 (including diskette). And it gets there in a week. Mail would work, but why? I would not want to send fifteen copies out to people at $3.00 each, and if I make them pay for it I have to wait for the cash to get here first. Add that to the week delay. [stuff about Tetris being a trademark and copyright deleted. It is true.] --
josh@happym.WA.COM (Joshua_Putnam) (06/05/91)
In <1991Jun3.210518.1923@risky.ecs.umass.edu> kimmel@risky.ecs.umass.edu (Mathew Kimmel) writes: >Points taken, although other people (including Joachim) have disagreed >with you. Would it be better to post Coherent sources on, say, >alt.sources or comp.sources.misc? How about comp.sources.coherent :-)? Any takers? It'd get my vote. -- Joshua_Putnam@happym.wa.com Happy Man Corp. 206/463-9399 x102 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399 fax x108 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor. (NextMail Info. free (sample $20): E-mail patty@happym.wa.com. okay too)
mike@array.UUCP (Mike Willett) (06/06/91)
> Points taken, although other people (including Joachim) have disagreed > with you. Would it be better to post Coherent sources on, say, > alt.sources or comp.sources.misc? The discussion keeps going "to post or not to post"... I think the issues are well taken, and that we should try to work to the abilities of the c.os.c readers. After reading this group since its conception, I would summarize **some** of the readership as having small disk space, low speed modems, paying for bytes from their feeder site. I would expect a lot of them not to have access to a larger *nix system capable of archvival or temporary free storage of large sources. These are all genuine concerns about paying for large amounts of data they may not want, in whatever form. So I would like to see the discussion move towards alternatives to get the data to people that want it, without having to sift through major volumes of sources found in other groups. Perhaps we should look at alternate vehicles of distribution, such as a "sources only" mailing list, or an archive server similar to that of clarkson.edu, or of course, a comp.sources.coherent group. I would be willing to concider doing a mailing list if the interest is there. Please offer other alternatives to what I have talked about above. What other methods that could work for all users? --Mike -- Michael Willett, mike@array.com uupsi!monarch!mike uunet!csn!monarch!mike Array Microsystems, 1420 Quail Lake Loop, Colrado Springs, CO 80906 719 540 7952 So much fun, so little time to enjoy it... ________________________________________________________________________________
albani@cadlab.sublink.ORG (Lanfranco Albani) (06/07/91)
josh@happym.WA.COM (Joshua_Putnam) writes: >How about comp.sources.coherent :-)? >It'd get my vote. And mine, too. Bye, Lanfranco #include <std_disclaimer.h> -- Lanfranco Albani - CAD.LAB s.p.a., v. Stalingrado 45, Bologna, Italia Email: (work:) albani@cadlab.sublink.org, (home:) bob@allan.sublink.org Phone: (work:) ++39 (51) 371099, (home:) ++39 (51) 727372; Fax: ++39 (51) 366964 (work only), Fidonet: 2:332/407.1138 (home only).
lark@greylock.tivoli.com (Lar Kaufman) (06/08/91)
Let's not rehash this every couple of weeks. It is the standard form for small OS groups to post sources to the newsgroup, UUNET users notwithstanding. I do not see adequate volume to justify the formation of a sources group for Coherent at this time, but you are free to go through the RFD and CFV if you believe in the matter sufficiently. My opinion (for whatever it's worth as founder of comp.os.coherent) is that we would be much better off with a sources group for "small Unix" - and a number of people have sent me email agreeing with that. This would incorporate sources for Minix, Coherent, and other OSes of a similar nature that do not have their own newsgroups, such as QNX. I am not willing at this time to attend to the work necessary to issue the request for discussion and call for votes, and do the vote counting. If you are, all you have to do is have at it... (read the procedures for how to go about it in news.groups). I think Peter Da Silva may be willing to do this very thing, but he is out of the country for a few weeks. In any case, this being Usenet, the "controlled anarchy that works", you need not be ashamed to post sources to this newsgroup. On the other hand, if you waste bandwidth posting stuff of no general interest, or that does not work, or requires special software to extract, or whatever... a pox on you. -lar Lar Kaufman I would feel more optimistic about a bright future (voice) 512-794-9070 for man if he spent less time proving that he can (fax) 512-794-0623 outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness lark@tivoli.com and respecting her seniority. - E.B. White
rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) (06/08/91)
In article <3602@happym.WA.COM> josh@happym.WA.COM (Joshua_Putnam) writes: > >In <1991Jun3.210518.1923@risky.ecs.umass.edu> kimmel@risky.ecs.umass.edu (Mathew Kimmel) writes: > >>Points taken, although other people (including Joachim) have disagreed >>with you. Would it be better to post Coherent sources on, say, >>alt.sources or comp.sources.misc? > >How about comp.sources.coherent :-)? Unless I'm missing something, the traffic here seems fairly low. I get an average of about three articles per day. I don't see any reason not to post sources here. I wonder if WNEWS and GNEWS are creating headers that are not ecceptable to the latest CNEWS. Maybe traffic is really higher, but it is getting dropped before it gets to my site. Rick Kelly rmk@rmkhome.UUCP frog!rmkhome!rmk rmk@frog.UUCP
rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) (06/10/91)
In article <15479153@mailgsm.mendelson.com> gsm@mailgsm.mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes: >This is an explanation, not a flame, so please don't be insulted. :-) > >kimmel@umvlsi.ecs.umass.edu (Mathew Kimmel) said: > >>I just assumed it wasn't cool to post sources here, since I'd never seen >>any. But, maybe I was wrong, so I'll give it a shot. > >No, you were right. Posting source files to this group causes problems for >those of us who pay for our news distribution. Since 50k is the equivalent of >SEVERAL WEEKS traffic in c.o.c, posting source files will cause many of us >to have to drop this group. Not posting sources causes problems for those of us who don't have $10000+ to set up an Internet site. For me, piggy might as well be on the moon, except under special circumstances. >I am in the U.S. and use UUNET as my feed. I pay about one cent a k-bytes, but >my news feed (which is a small one) still costs me over a hundered dollars a >month. > >There are some people on this group (Joachim for example) who have to pay >government owned telephone companies ridiculous (to us) rates for data >telephone service. I think he pays close to a dollar a k-byte. > >Tetris is a nice game, it may be worth the 50 cents I paid to get it. BUT IT >IS NOT WORTH $50.00 or even $5.00. Escpecially since it was not asked for. > >So please don't post sources here. If you want files from a different country >make a personal arangment to email it or (heaven forbid) air-mail a diskette. > >You can send 1.2 megabytes of compressed (almost 2 megabytes) of data on one >diskette for about $3.00 (including diskette). And it gets there in a week. > >MEA CULPA. I have posted large files to this group too. I am speaking from >experience. :-) So you think that Coherent should be the only system/os on the net that doesn't have sources posted? >>Here is a shar of my port of Tetris, the popular falling-blocks game. >>Enjoy, and please send me any questions/comments... > >I also have some complaints about how the file was sent: > > 1. It is too big to be edited with the STANDARD COHERENT EDITOR "me". I cut of the header with vi (elvis), no big deal. > 2. The STANDARD COHERENT MAKE "make" will not make it. Make,
jochenw@rama.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Jochen Wolters) (06/11/91)
josh@happym.WA.COM (Joshua_Putnam) writes: >How about comp.sources.coherent :-)? >Any takers? >It'd get my vote. Mine too. (Definitely!) Greetinx, Jochen. -- Jochen Wolters | jochenw@cip-s02.informatik.rwth-aachen.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Taniwha is waiting for me just below the surface so bright..." Split Enz
miquels@htsa.htsa.aha.nl (Miquel van Smoorenburg) (06/11/91)
In article <9106071417.31@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes: >In article <3602@happym.WA.COM> josh@happym.WA.COM (Joshua_Putnam) writes: >> >>In <1991Jun3.210518.1923@risky.ecs.umass.edu> kimmel@risky.ecs.umass.edu (Mathew Kimmel) writes: > [ discussion deleted ] >Unless I'm missing something, the traffic here seems fairly low. I get an >average of about three articles per day. I don't see any reason not to post >sources here. > >I wonder if WNEWS and GNEWS are creating headers that are not ecceptable to >the latest CNEWS. Maybe traffic is really higher, but it is getting dropped >before it gets to my site. > >Rick Kelly rmk@rmkhome.UUCP frog!rmkhome!rmk rmk@frog.UUCP You could be right there. I don't use Coherent, I use Minix. (At the moment I use HP-UX :-( ). But there was a bug in the Wnews header routine. ZvIt sometimes (always?) generates a "wrong" Date: field. C-News chokes on this: it just throws the article away, without warning. You will never know. If you want more information on this subject, I recommend someone using Wnews with Coherent tries to post on comp.os.minix, asking for comment on this (that is.. if he can get through, with wnews. Maybe you can manually edit the Date: field before sending it through uucp?). Ofcourse, you can always send Email to the author of wnews: Fred van Kempen waltje@uwalt.nl.mugnet.org Hope this helps, Miquel -- --- % Miquel van Smoorenburg, Baljuwstraat 20, 2461 SL Langeraar, Holland % % miquels@drinkel.nl.mugnet.org miquels@maestro.htsa.aha.nl % % God is real, unless declared integer.. %
lark@greylock.osf.org (Lar Kaufman) (06/11/91)
In article <900@cadlab.sublink.ORG>, albani@cadlab.sublink.ORG (Lanfranco Albani) writes: > josh@happym.WA.COM (Joshua_Putnam) writes: > > >How about comp.sources.coherent :-)? > > >It'd get my vote. > > And mine, too. As I have previously indicated, all this is idle chitchat until someone follows the procedures in news.groups to initiate a Request For Discussion followed by a Call for Votes. This is not a difficult process, but it is a fair amount of work to be a votetaker. In the meantime, I assure you that it is within the charter for this newsgroup to post sources. I quote from the Call For Votes: The purpose of the group is to discuss and support the Coherent operating system and related topics. The words "and support" and "and related topics" cover the field pretty broadly. Let me suggest that to date, the discussion about whether or not it is appropriate to post sources has generated more traffic than has actual source postings. I would love to be shown differently, but I know from following comp.os.minix that there is not a sufficiency of source materials to be posted to justify a comp.sources.coherent. There MAY be enough volume to justify formation of something like comp.sources.smallunix ... Now all we need is a volunteer vote-taker. However, I recommend patience, this newsgroup is very young yet. -lar Lar Kaufman I would feel more optimistic about a bright future (voice) 512-794-9070 for man if he spent less time proving that he can (fax) 512-794-0623 outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness lark@tivoli.com and respecting her seniority. - E.B. White
josh@happym.WA.COM (Joshua_Putnam) (06/13/91)
In <9106071417.31@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes: >In article <3602@happym.WA.COM> josh@happym.WA.COM (Joshua_Putnam) writes: >>How about comp.sources.coherent :-)? >Unless I'm missing something, the traffic here seems fairly low. I get an >average of about three articles per day. I don't see any reason not to post >sources here. I don't object to sources here either, sorry if I gave that impression. But if it turns out that other people object so strongly to sources in this group that they are "ruled out," (though without a moderator I don't know who would do the ruling), I think a comp.sources.coherent group would be better than most of the other possibilities. I also see only two or three posts a day here -- is there more volume that gets dropped before it gets to me? -- Joshua_Putnam@happym.wa.com Happy Man Corp. 206/463-9399 x102 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399 fax x108 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor. (NextMail Info. free (sample $20): E-mail patty@happym.wa.com. okay too)