JJD118@PSUVM.PSU.EDU (John Donovan) (03/14/91)
From: John Donovan <JJD118@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
I don't have alot of $$ to spend on a weapon but here is what I would like to
do: I would like to hunt deer ( I Live in PA) and would also like to do some
small game (not birds). Would my best bet be get a shotgun and use slugs
for the deer, or get a cheep deer gun like a used 30-30 or the like and then
get a .22 for the small game? Are there other options like a .223 or .243?
Or will a .2223 or .243 destroy too much meat? any suggestions will be
very helpfull. Post them here if they could be of group intrest or
else E-mail them to me.
- John
JJD118@PSUVM
JJD118.PSUVM.PSU.EDUcrs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby) (03/15/91)
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby) As Robert Ruark said, "Use enough gun!" John Donovan <JJD118@PSUVM.PSU.EDU> enquired about possible choices of firearm for deer and small-game hunting (not birds). One of the options that he enquired about is the possibility of using the 0.223 or 0.243 for double duty. I would like to address this part of his question first and then make my recommendation. I'm afraid that I'm very opinionated about this subject. As far as I'm concerned, the 0.223 is *not* now, never was, and never will be a deer cartridge. It is quite true that a deer *can* be killed with the cartridge under the right conditions. A deer can be killed with a .22 rimfire or, for that matter, a knife tied to a stick under the *right* *conditions*. That doesn't mean that we should do it. The 0.243 class of cartridges is, in my opinion, the *minimum* suitable for deer-size game, indeed *it* is marginal for large deer and inadequate for the really large members of the deer family such as elk. While John's query is about how to hunt deer and small game on a limited budget, there is a subset of hunters who seem to believe that it is more "sporting" to use undersized cartridges for the quarry at hand. I believe that this is *false* sportsmanship. It may be more challenging for the hunter, but it is the game that suffers when the hunter fails to pull it off. I hope that this will not be taken as a flame against John. It is not so intended. I guess that more detail is needed to make any valid recommendation as to what *is* appropriate. (I've already made *my* recommendation as to what is *not.*) As to the suitability of either of the mentioned cartridges for *small* game, I suppose that it may be possible to hand load light loads for the purpose but I don't know for sure. In any event, to do that you will need to buy reloading equipment and I believe that, to get started, you will be better served by using that money to buy a better gun. Reloading can come later if you like. Hitting a running cottontail or other rabbit with a rifle of any kind is challenging, perhaps to the point of being frustrating. If small game includes rabbit, perhaps a shotgun is a more appropriate place to start. Because the real query is "What can I buy with limited funds to allow me to hunt both deer and small game?," my suggestion is the shotgun. At reasonably close range, a shotgun with slugs is suitable for deer and with shot it is a fine small-game gun. And, while you say "not birds" now, that option is still open. I believe there may be grouse, pheasant, and, perhaps quail, in your neck of the woods. Try it you may like it. Later, as funds become available, you can expand your armory to include center-fire rifles for big game, perhaps a .22 for squirrels and, maybe, rabbits (using the the moving target techniques that you should have developed with your shotgun by then :). While my preference in shotguns is doubles, all things considered, my recommendation for this purpose is a pump gun. If funds permit, perhaps the Remington 870 (or, they also once made a lower cost version--non-walnut stock, less well finished, but essentially the same action--sorry I don't recall the model number). For your purpose, I recommend interchangeable barrels (not necessarily screw-in chokes, although they are something to consider). With interchangeable barrels, later you can buy a slug barrel with sights for deer more cheaply than you can buy another gun. For now, a regular shotgun barrel either with screw-in chokes or with fairly open choke (does anyone know the tightest choke recommended for slugs?). A word of caution: If you do go for the Remington line, it has changed rather a lot in recent years. Make sure that replacement barrels are still available for the gun you choose, especially if you buy a second-hand gun. Well! This is far too long--diarrhea of the keyboard. I hope there aren't too many typos. Best, Charlie Sorsby "I'm the NRA!" crs@lanl.gov
wiggs@byron.u.washington.edu (James Wiggs) (03/15/91)
From: wiggs@byron.u.washington.edu (James Wiggs) In article <333@erb1.engr.wisc.edu> JJD118@PSUVM.PSU.EDU (John Donovan) writes: >From: John Donovan <JJD118@PSUVM.PSU.EDU> >I don't have alot of $$ to spend on a weapon but here is what I would like to >do: I would like to hunt deer ( I Live in PA) and would also like to do some >small game (not birds). Would my best bet be get a shotgun and use slugs >for the deer, or get a cheep deer gun like a used 30-30 or the like and then >get a .22 for the small game? Are there other options like a .223 or .243? >Or will a .2223 or .243 destroy too much meat? any suggestions will be >very helpfull. Post them here if they could be of group intrest or >else E-mail them to me. First, I have to ask you a question. Are you equipped to do any reloading? It seems unlikely, since you appear to be asking about buying a first weapon, but just in case... If you are set up to do any reloading, I would suggest buying the best gun you can afford in a caliber no smaller than .243--I own a 6mm Rem--and you will have no problems with deer. You can then load light loads for use on small game. For squirrels, rabbits, and the like, I use either a Lyman 85 gr cast bullet w/ gas check or the Sierra 85 gr hollow point boattail. This slug is built with a very thin jacket--it is meant for varmint shooting--so it will expand nicely even when downloaded. I don't have my loading manuals here, so I'm not going to quote the actual loads, but I will suggest that you can find good light loads for *jacketed* bullets in some back issues of American Rifleman or Guns&Ammo. Can anyone here remember the actual issues? They were in the summer of '90, as I recall... Any good loading manual will have loads for cast bullets. If you are not set up for reloading, I would suggest going with the shotgun and using slugs for deer. In PA, you aren't likely to be taking any really long shots, so this should be adequate. Unless you're really a crack shot or a very good stalker, a shotgun will improve your chances on the small game over a 22. Also, one good shotgun will cost less than buying both a high-power rifle and a 22, if they are going to be of any reasonable quality. > - John >JJD118@PSUVM >JJD118.PSUVM.PSU.EDU James Wiggs wiggs@chemc2.chem.washington.edu _or_ wiggs@milton.u.washington.edu #include <std.disclaimer> "I guess we can't make fun of Burt's lifestyle anymore." - Valentine McKee
cassman@athena.mit.edu (Baby Killer) (03/16/91)
From: cassman@athena.mit.edu (Baby Killer) >small game (not birds). Would my best bet be get a shotgun and use slugs >for the deer, or get a cheep deer gun like a used 30-30 or the like and then >get a .22 for the small game? Check your local hunting laws to see what is legal to hunt with. If only shotguns are allowed, go with a 12ga. -- reloadable in a variety of ways (birdshot to slugs) with light to heavy powder charges. If you can use a rifle, I recommend a used 30'06 or .308. Both are readily available, and the ammo for them is available in a range of bullet weights that can be used for almost anything from varmints to elk. The reason that I don't go for the .243 as readily is that it may be too limiting for you if you decide to go after quarry larger than deer. Every hunter should own a good .22 rifle for practice / small game. The .22 is very cheap to shoot. ------------------------------------------------------- ...and then the blood returned to my brain... ------------------------------------------------------