ralphk@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Ralph Kinser) (04/04/91)
Oregon normally has two general seasons in which you can rifle hunt for Bull Elk. This is for either Rocky Mountain or Roosevelt Elk. You must pick which type of Elk(by region) and which season you want to hunt. This year the Rocky Montain Elk seasons are Oct. 30- Nov. 3 and Nov. 9-17. (sorry, I don't have the Roosevelt dates with me) This year Oregon closed all First season Rocky Mountain Elk hunts to the general public. You can hunt First season only by permit. The permits are issued by drawing and the quanities are limited. However, most of the Rocky Mountain Elk regions closed for First season are open to the general public for second season, there are no limits on tags(other than non-resident) that I am awhere of. My question is "What is the benifit of having a limited number of hunters in the First season if there is no limit on tags for the Second season hunt?". Does anyone know the reason or have a good guess? regards Ralph
tfschli@ns.PacBell.COM (Tim Schlink) (04/05/91)
In article <489@erb1.engr.wisc.edu> ralphk@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Ralph Kinser) writes: > >Oregon normally has two general seasons in which you can rifle >hunt... >... This year Oregon closed all First season Rocky Mountain Elk >hunts to the general public. You can hunt First season only by >permit. The permits are issued by drawing and the quanities are >limited. However, most of the Rocky Mountain Elk regions closed >for First season are open to the general public for second >season, there are no limits on tags(other than non-resident) that >I am awhere of. My question is "What is the benifit of having a >limited number of hunters in the First season if there is no >limit on tags for the Second season hunt?". Does anyone know the >reason or have a good guess? > I'm not familiar with Oregon seasons, but I'd guess the Elk are more vulnerable during the early season due to being in rut. [mod note: Here's another guess. Maybe the prime bucks will have already fertilized the does by the second season. This seems especially likely if the second season only allows bucks to be harvested. tjr] -- Tim Schlink: pbseps!tim@PacBell.COM 180 New Montgomery, Room 600, San Francisco, CA 94105 Voice: (415) 542-2735 ***ALL DISCLAIMERS APPLY!!***
marko@hutch (Mark O'Shea) (04/05/91)
In article <489@erb1.engr.wisc.edu> ralphk@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Ralph Kinser) writes: > >Oregon normally has two general seasons in which you can rifle hunt >for Bull Elk. This is for either Rocky Mountain or Roosevelt Elk. >You must pick which type of Elk(by region) and which season you >want to hunt. This year the Rocky Montain Elk seasons are Oct. 30- >Nov. 3 and Nov. 9-17. (sorry, I don't have the Roosevelt dates with >me) This year Oregon closed all First season Rocky Mountain Elk >hunts to the general public. You can hunt First season only by >permit. The permits are issued by drawing and the quanities are >limited. However, most of the Rocky Mountain Elk regions closed >for First season are open to the general public for second season, >there are no limits on tags(other than non-resident) that I am >awhere of. My question is "What is the benifit of having a limited >number of hunters in the First season if there is no limit on tags >for the Second season hunt?". Does anyone know the reason or have >a good guess? > >regards >Ralph A few years ago The F&G did a study with the idea of balancing hunter desires, game management and (unspoken but nonetheless true) income >from tags. The hunters overwhelmingly preferred controlled hunts (permit only) with closed areas and closed roads. The following year ~1984. Most of the first seasons became controlled. Soon, I believe, all elk hunting will be controlled only. The idea is that the elk are easier to get in the first season. By the time the second season rolls around they are naturally in smaller herds (the rut is well past) and generally spooked from the first hunt. So limit the number of first season hunters The F&G in order to maximize income will always try to leave a few areas open to all comers so that hunters who don't draw can still buy a tag (most important) and go out to enjoy a hunt. Even if it is overcrowded. I am not defending the policies of the F&G. I know what happened as a result of the study and how the bureaucratic minds work in the F&G. The head of the ODFW is not a game biologist. He was is a bureaucrat with no prior F&G dept experience. That is my view of how they work based on what I know and observe. May the sun always be at your back and the wind in your face. Mark O'Shea marko@ijf1.intel.com
keith@clodii.columbiasc.NCR.COM (04/05/91)
>From: Ralph Kinser <ralphk@hpcvra.cv.hp.com> >awhere of. My question is "What is the benifit of having a limited >number of hunters in the First season if there is no limit on tags >for the Second season hunt?". Does anyone know the reason or have >a good guess? >regards >Ralph I would like to offer a couple of guesses since this is open to anyone even though I am a long way from Oregon and we don't have any Elk. :(( 1. The Wildlife Dept in Oregon may possibly have noticed a drop in Elk herd size from a year ago and therefore have decided to restrict the number of hunters the first hunt period which should reduce the number of Elk taken. Hopefully, by the time the second hunt comes in the Elk will have wised up and be harder for a hunter to get his/her limit. 2. This reduction in hunters during the first hunt period will allow more of the dominant Bull Elks to mate with the does during the rut thus keeping the gene pool at a high quality level. Naturally, these are my opinions and I reserve the right to be wrong at any time of my choosing! ;)) You could always contact the wildlife dept. and ask to speak to a game biologist. That's why they are there. P.S. A request to all who post on rec.hunting...Sometimes I will read a post that I find interesting but it's hard to determine the area the poster is from just by looking at the address or the .sig file. So how about something in the subject line or your .sig file to indicate your home state or the state you hunt in. This helps me to get a better perspective of what hunting is like in that particular state first hand. Other than that I think we have a real good group going here and look forward to reading my mail first thing in the morning. Thanks alot everyone!! Regards, Keith --- | Keith M. Boyd (NCR E+M Col.) | Nothing could be fina' than hunting and | | 3325 Platt Springs Rd. | fishing in South Carolina! -Me- | | West Cola., S.C. 29170 | Fax: 791-6998 | keith@clodII.Columbia.NCR.COM | | Vp: 803-791-6420 | From uunet: !uunet!ncrlink!ncrcae!sauron!clodII!keith |
brian%reed.uucp@RELAY.CS.NET (Brian Vandewettering) (04/06/91)
In article <489@erb1.engr.wisc.edu> ralphk@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Ralph Kinser) writes: > >Oregon normally has two general seasons in which you can rifle hunt >for Bull Elk. This is for either Rocky Mountain or Roosevelt Elk. .. Stuff deleted ... >My question is "What is the benifit of having a limited >number of hunters in the First season if there is no limit on tags >for the Second season hunt?". Does anyone know the reason or have >a good guess? > I have hunted elk for the past 6 years. The reason for limiting access to the first hunt is to reduce the number of animals killed overall. Since Elk are herd animals the first season hunters who know where the undisturbed herds are can go there in mass to kill the bulls. Although I have never been in on one of these turkey shoots, I have heard of groups killing all of the bulls out of a herd (9 or more) in one morning. Not very sportsman like and I don't approve. Therefore, by limiting entry you reduce the size of these hunting groups. The second season hunters must then pursue the remainder of the spooked animals through the Oregon timber. My kind of fun. However, I have yet to take an Elk. This limited number of tags will also stop people from killing several animals to fill their buddy's tags. Too bad we all can't play fair. >regards >Ralph -- All opinions are mine, mine, mine. ============================================================================= Brian Vandewettering - NRA,OSSA Motorola Inc., Computer Systems Division brian@pdx.csd.mot.com . . . tektronix!nosun!cvedc!mcspdx!brian
rickc@scotty.TEKTRONIX.COM (04/06/91)
I agree with F&G Com. requiring a permit to hunt the first
season. To bad the Salmon runs on the Columbia where not handed
in this manner.
I've hunted Elk in Eastern Oregon for the last 15 years with
my flamily in the same area each year. The Elk population in the
area I hunt has diminished greatly in the last five years.
When I started hunting this area it was miles of open range,
and the Elk heards naturally migrated through this area.
An large herd before the season opened (they are usally herded
up from the august-sep. rut) would be 80 to 120 head, consisting
of at least 25 forked bulls, and numberous spikes.
Then about 4-5 seasons ago the F&G started a elk and deer
study where they set up a fenced off area of I belive to be
approx. 40 to 60 sq. miles using a 10 foot elk proof fence
bordering the area I hunt and right in the middle of the elk's natural
migration path. They also set up a quarter mile no
hunting zone around the fence.
The first season after the installation of this fence the
elk were slaughtered. As soon as the shooting started on opening
morning the herds would start running using thier normal routes and end
up at the fence. They were then forced to circle back towards the
shooting or along the fence. That that was the last season were there
were lots of forked bulls.
Also about five or six years ago a rancher who had leased the
land next the game study area and also the area I hunt, set
up a private pay-to-hunt ranch called Aventures Unlimited ($1500. to
hunt the first season) .
I don't know what kind of deal the rancher had with the F&G,
but there was no quarter mile dead zone bordering the game study
fence on the ranch. Some of the elk herds in the national forest would
end up running along the fence which would then lead them right onto the
ranch. You could hear shooting
all day long on the ranch durning the entire 5 day season.
Forutunately for the elk, the rancher had to shutdown his
business two years ago because he could not afford the liability
insurance he had to carry. Now his ranch hands and friend only
hunt his land.
Now last year when we showed up two days before the season
opened to set up camp, we found that they had started logging
the canyons along the game fence. They did'nt leave any cover
for the elk. After the shooting starts the big bulls will break away
>from the herds and hide in the thickest cover they can
get into. They don't have that cover now.
I think to sum up the reasons for the declining elk populations, they are:
1. Reduction in forest land do the logging. The
Oregonian newspaper did a good artical on this last year right before
the hunting season. They showed a map of an area during
1970 and the same area in 1990. The increase of logging roads
in that area had basicly wipe out the elk. The F&G does close alot of
logging roads during the season making it difficult for
hunters to access those areas, they need to do more of this.
2. Over hunting of the big bulls... They should change
the rules to be able to only take spikes and/or forked horns for
all areas. This would help build up the best blood lines.
Last year I only hear of one 5-point and a 7-point in the area
I hunt, and I don't think they were taken by hunters. I've never
taken a big bull before, but i would think it would not taste as
good as a tender spike, but i guess there are those trophy
hunters out there.
I hope the hunt by premit only this year will help, its a
good first step.
I've sent in for my permit this year, hopfully i be one of
the lucky ones. I glad to see a rec.hunting and look forward to
reading it on my breaks.
brian%reed.uucp@RELAY.CS.NET (Brian Vandewettering) (04/09/91)
In article <496@erb1.engr.wisc.edu> tfschli@ns.PacBell.COM (Tim Schlink) writes: > >I'm not familiar with Oregon seasons, but I'd guess the Elk are >more vulnerable during the early season due to being in rut. The Elk breeding season occurs in August and early September, coinciding with the month long bow season. Rifle season falls at a time when most of the bigger bulls are off in bachelor herds (November). However, the young spikes usually stay with the main herd. Where the dominate cow is the boss at all times during the year. Sexist huh??? > >[mod note: Here's another guess. Maybe the prime bucks will have ^^^^^ That's BULLS and COWS when refering to Elk not BUCKS and DOES as with Deer. >already fertilized the does by the second season. This seems >especially likely if the second season only allows bucks to be >harvested. tjr] You always need a special permit to harvest a Cow. Both general seasons are open to bulls only. > >-- >Tim Schlink: pbseps!tim@PacBell.COM >180 New Montgomery, Room 600, San Francisco, CA 94105 >Voice: (415) 542-2735 ***ALL DISCLAIMERS APPLY!!*** -- All opinions are mine, mine, mine. ============================================================================= Brian Vandewettering - NRA,OSSA Motorola Inc., Computer Systems Division brian@pdx.csd.mot.com . . . tektronix!nosun!cvedc!mcspdx!brian