dpb@liltyke.chi.il.us (Darryl P. Baker) (02/05/91)
I responded to a request for accounting software in this very newsgroup.
It seemed we found a perfect match, the accounting software I had growing
dust in my basement would be useful to someone else. First over the course
of several weeks we negotiated over price. We finally settled on a price
$100 + shipping. What we couldn't settle on was who would send what to whom
first. C.O.D was a choice but expensive. I thought I would take a risk, I'd
send the software and wait for payment or the return of the software. What
I got was nothing. Finally after many email letters I recieved:
#> First of all, my machine has been *down* (again...) for quite a while... I
#> accidentally did something to it (it's a long, and rather embarrassing story)
#> and had to restore a lot of stuff... just got it up today...
#>
#> SECONDLY... this was rather weird. I couldn't figure out who the hell would
#> send me accounting software... I searched the packages high and low and
#> found no letter or anything. My tactic was going to be to write to the
Yes there was a letter 8 1/2 x 11 letter with price and mailing info but
these can be missed in unpacking. No big deal.
#> return address and ASK who you were... I was rather surprised to get a
#> series of letters today describing what was actually happening.
#>
#> NOW: rather than have you get nasty about things, which you can at your
#> expense... I would like to have you know that I NEVER *EVER* E V E R asked
#> you to send this stuff to me. You did on YOUR OWN ACCORD. Why I don't know.
#> I appreciate it and all that, and you happen to be very *VERY* lucky that I
#> am an honest person. My original intentions were to find out what you had
#> and some way to evaluate it (obviously this was the best as I got to look at
#> it myself), and decide from there. The unfortunate part of this deal is that
#> you never consulted with me before sending this... had you taken that measure,
#> this would not have occurred.
#>
#> As of late I have been laid off from work. (Yes, the recession is hitting
#> over here.) and now don't have a steady income so will not be able to
#> afford just sending out 100.00 + here and there.
#>
#> I will say this: out of ignorance and curiosity, I *did* open the software
#> packages and had a look at it all... I don't know how that will affect the
#> actual physical condition of them or whatever to you. And I don't know how
#> you want to handle this whole thing. I for one am not going to damage
#> anything, etc etc... and am taking good care of it. I would like to read
#> the stuff anyways... it would be nice to see what makes it tick...
#>
#> Well, anyhow... you can relax. The delay was an honest delay, and I urge
#> you to relax and calm your jets. Let me know how you want to handle this
#> situation and I will do my very best to comply.
Well after that I just asked the software be returned. I've been laid
off. I can relate. I think I wouldn't even cared if it, at the time,
arrived postage due but well, still nothing. The email was bounced and
well I gave up.
Just resently this person has reappeared on the net. I tried email and
it was quite crudely bounced by someone the site, trying to make it look
like the person didn't exist on that machine. Very strange using the
"bang" path in the signature.
Now before I do my best to make sure everyone knows who this person is
and what kind of person they will be dealing with. Am I justified?
Other than posting their name any other suggestions?
--
__ _ __
/ ) // / ) /
/ / __. __ __ __ , // /--< __. /_ _ __ dpb@liltyke.CHI.IL.US
/__/_(_/|_/ (_/ (_/ (_/_</_ /___/_(_/|_/ <_</_/ (_
/
'
From: dpb@liltyke.chi.il.us (Darryl P. Baker)
Path: liltyke.chi.il.us!dpb
Newsgroups: unix-pc.general
Subject: Ethics: Software Sale Horror Story
Expires:
References:
Sender:
Followup-To:
Distribution: na
Organization: Home machine of Darryl Baker, Batavia, IL
Keywords:
I responded to a request for accounting software in this very newsgroup.
It seemed we found a perfect match, the accounting software I had growing
dust in my basement would be useful to someone else. First over the course
of several weeks we negotiated over price. We finally settled on a price
$100 + shipping. What we couldn't settle on was who would send what to whom
first. C.O.D was a choice but expensive. I thought I would take a risk, I'd
send the software and wait for payment or the return of the software. What
I got was nothing. Finally after many email letters I recieved:
#> First of all, my machine has been *down* (again...) for quite a while... I
#> accidentally did something to it (it's a long, and rather embarrassing story)
#> and had to restore a lot of stuff... just got it up today...
#>
#> SECONDLY... this was rather weird. I couldn't figure out who the hell would
#> send me accounting software... I searched the packages high and low and
#> found no letter or anything. My tactic was going to be to write to the
Yes there was a letter 8 1/2 x 11 letter with price and mailing info but
these can be missed in unpacking. No big deal.
#> return address and ASK who you were... I was rather surprised to get a
#> series of letters today describing what was actually happening.
#>
#> NOW: rather than have you get nasty about things, which you can at your
#> expense... I would like to have you know that I NEVER *EVER* E V E R asked
#> you to send this stuff to me. You did on YOUR OWN ACCORD. Why I don't know.
#> I appreciate it and all that, and you happen to be very *VERY* lucky that I
#> am an honest person. My original intentions were to find out what you had
#> and some way to evaluate it (obviously this was the best as I got to look at
#> it myself), and decide from there. The unfortunate part of this deal is that
#> you never consulted with me before sending this... had you taken that measure,
#> this would not have occurred.
#>
#> As of late I have been laid off from work. (Yes, the recession is hitting
#> over here.) and now don't have a steady income so will not be able to
#> afford just sending out 100.00 + here and there.
#>
#> I will say this: out of ignorance and curiosity, I *did* open the software
#> packages and had a look at it all... I don't know how that will affect the
#> actual physical condition of them or whatever to you. And I don't know how
#> you want to handle this whole thing. I for one am not going to damage
#> anything, etc etc... and am taking good care of it. I would like to read
#> the stuff anyways... it would be nice to see what makes it tick...
#>
#> Well, anyhow... you can relax. The delay was an honest delay, and I urge
#> you to relax and calm your jets. Let me know how you want to handle this
#> situation and I will do my very best to comply.
Well after that I just asked the software be returned. I've been laid
off. I can relate. I think I wouldn't even cared if it, at the time,
arrived postage due but well, still nothing. The email was bounced and
well I gave up.
Just resently this person has reappeared on the net. I tried email and
it was quite crudely bounced by someone the site, trying to make it look
like the person didn't exist on that machine. Very strange using the
"bang" path in the signature.
Now before I do my best to make sure everyone knows who this person is
and what kind of person they will be dealing with. Am I justified?
Other than posting their name any other suggestions?gil@limbic.ssdl.com (Gil Kloepfer Jr.) (02/06/91)
In article <2@liltyke.CHI.IL.US> dpb@liltyke.chi.il.us (Darryl P. Baker) writes: >What we couldn't settle on was who would send what to whom >first. C.O.D was a choice but expensive. I thought I would take a risk, I'd >send the software and wait for payment or the return of the software. What >I got was nothing. Finally after many email letters I recieved: [interesting excuse deleted] A little late than never, here's what I've been doing on all the 3B1 stuff I've sold. 1. I've been asking for bank checks. This protects both the buyer and seller. I am guaranteed that the check will not bounce. The buyer, by virtue of my signature and the fact that the check is made payable to me, means that the buyer paid me for SOMETHING. It's a receipt, of sorts. 2. All shipments are being made via Federal Express. FedEx has a package tracking number and all packages have a receipt. I can track a package if the buyer claims that s/he didn't recieve the package. The buyer can check the tracking number to assure that I really sent the package. This transaction costs a little more, but the benefits outweigh the costs by far. I've had nothing but good experiences with FedEx, and packages arrive on time and in good shape. My experiences with selling things on the net have been very good, with one exception. I hate selling things (I'm a programmer, darn it!), so this is a good thing. [Other details of horrible sale deleted] >Well after that I just asked the software be returned. I've been laid >off. I can relate. I think I wouldn't even cared if it, at the time, >arrived postage due but well, still nothing. The email was bounced and >well I gave up. This is a very unfortunate experience I'm afraid, as I've known everyone here to be honest and cooperative, overall. The many boards and kits I bought through folks on the net have always been positive, and I would hate to see an experience like this spoil that trust. If I receieved a package from someone on the net that I never mailed for, I would be the first to write/call that person to find out what's up. You probably have little legal recall that wouldn't require you to wait years through the courts and take loads of money to retain a lawyer. Still, I would (if you can afford it) consult with an attorney to find out what your rights are to get payment for the software, or get the software back. The person you're dealing with is trying to take the following "law" a step further: if you receive something you didn't order through the mail, it's your's, and someone demands payment, you are not liable for it. However, there is also something called ethics, of which this person never has heard. >Now before I do my best to make sure everyone knows who this person is >and what kind of person they will be dealing with. Am I justified? >Other than posting their name any other suggestions? I suspect that posting their name would cause more problems than it would solve. I recommend that you make the e-mail message available upon request. This way, if someone is interested in avoiding sales to this person (I am interested in knowing, by the way), they can do so. However, that person (who appears to be a self-proclaimed attorney) can't claim that you slandered his name on the net. It'll only lead to an ugly flame-war, at the very least. That's my two-cents...for what it's worth... -- Gil Kloepfer, Jr. gil@limbic.ssdl.com ...!ames!limbic!gil Southwest Systems Development Labs (Div of ICUS) Houston, Texas "There are beautiful people I wish would have never opened their mouths, because such ugliness oozes out." Philosophy Prof. at NYIT
jfischer@cbnewsm.att.com (james.fischer) (02/07/91)
If an agreement was reached as to price, then the logistics of shipping the software would have been subject to the same level of examination by both parties. Are you sure that the recipient of the software was on the same wavelength? The entire situation might be a misunderstanding... Did you save your e-mail on the subject (both ways!)? It would seem to be a good idea to review the e-mail and check the clarity of the tacit ageement between the parties. The lack of follow-up on the return of software could be oversight. If I was laid off, quite a few things would be left undone, while I was trying to get work. The "bounce" could have been legit - you have no idea what the actual bounce-back looks like until you send mail to the same machine with a KNOWN bogus user-id (like "mickey.mouse"). To slander another person on the net without giving consideration to the types of concerns mentioned above is not a good idea. Someday, slander on the net will be the subject of a civil suit. Don't be the first. Try again to get your software back.