zientara@kodak.kodak.com (Dennis Zientara) (02/17/91)
I have been monitoring the discussion about the doctor through it's
entire cycle. It has been interesting to say the least.
I noticed that everyone who got involved, did so voluntarily. Nobody
was forced to read or participate.
I saw that many immature participants responded with obsenity and/or
profanity. Others also obviously immature, tried to participate by
having the biggest mouth :-) Still others tried to prevail by virtue
of sheer volume of postings.
The literally hundreds and hundreds of postings with reasonable prices
seems to indicate that:
1) Although the Doctor's view wasn't popular, it was very
correct. Let's call him Dr Who ;-)
2) Although the person trying to sell his equipment has many
followers, they did not chip in and buy his equipment as
a show of support. (just words, words are cheap)
3) Perhaps the original poster will eventually lower his prices
and be able to sell his equipment also.
I also noticed that many of the original respondents like Jan, Lenny,
Augustine, and more have wisely retreated from the limelight of a discussion
that has gravitated to rather juvenile groppling. Those with more juvenile
personalities have remained and have been joined by sleepers crawling out
of the cracks of the woodwork like scavengers cleaning up after a great
feast or slaughter, which ever way you view the discussion.
Personally I have enjoyed observing the discussion. How about a new newsgroup:
comp.sys.3b1.discussions where people can argue over things that they have
no knowledge about ? without being unduly criticized ?? After all, this group
is loaded with VERY opinionated readers with VERY LARGE egos.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
the sleeper
juvenile n138ct@tamuts.tamu.edu (Brent Burton) (02/17/91)
(Dennis Zientara) writes: >I have been monitoring the discussion about the doctor through it's >entire cycle. It has been interesting to say the least. > >I noticed that everyone who got involved, did so voluntarily. Nobody >was forced to read or participate. > >I saw that many immature participants responded with obsenity and/or [blah blah blah] > >Personally I have enjoyed observing the discussion. How about a new newsgroup: >comp.sys.3b1.discussions where people can argue over things that they have >no knowledge about ? without being unduly criticized ?? After all, this group >is loaded with VERY opinionated readers with VERY LARGE egos. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Who are you trying to fool? IMHO, your opinion *sucks*! Instead of creating comp.sys.3b1.discussions, create comp.sys.3b1.armchair.philosophy or comp.sys.3b1.desktop.philosopher I will agree with you somewhat -- it has been entertaining... :-) +----------------------+--------------------------+ | Brent P. Burton | n138ct@tamuts.tamu.edu | | Texas A&M University | Computer Science/Physics | +----------------------+--------------------------+
bruce@balilly.UUCP (Bruce Lilly) (02/17/91)
An open letter to Dennis Zientara: In article <1991Feb16.204911.21017@kodak.kodak.com> you, zientara@kodak.kodak.com (Dennis Zientara) opined: >I saw that many immature participants responded with obsenity and/or >profanity. Others also obviously immature, tried to participate by >having the biggest mouth :-) Still others tried to prevail by virtue >of sheer volume of postings. The biggest mouth, and the least mature postings were those from ``doctor'' Mikie Shea. >The literally hundreds and hundreds of postings with reasonable prices >seems to indicate that: > > 1) Although the Doctor's view wasn't popular, it was very > correct. Let's call him Dr Who ;-) As was correctly pointed out, in calm, mature postings by several people, the prices proposed by Gil were reasonable for what was being offered. Mikie's postings clearly indicated that he did not understand the difference between a 7300 with 0.5MB RAM and 20 MB disk and a 3B1 with 2Mb RAM and 80 MB disk. Mikie's view was dead wrong. Call him ``Doctor No''. I don't recall (probably because there weren't) ``hunderds and hundreds of postings with reasonable prices'' in the thread of discussion which followed Gil's offering. > 2) Although the person trying to sell his equipment has many > followers, they did not chip in and buy his equipment as > a show of support. (just words, words are cheap) You don't know what you're talking about, Dennis. I bought from Gil. Others obviously did also, as some of the items which I wished to purchase had already been spoken for, less than 24 hours after the original posting. Where did you get your omniscience regarding private business transactions? > 3) Perhaps the original poster will eventually lower his prices > and be able to sell his equipment also. This seems a spurious remark, since Gil has sold (at least several items of) what he offered. But, Dennis, this seems to be based on your incorrect #2 ``observation''. >I also noticed that many of the original respondents like Jan, Lenny, >Augustine, and more have wisely retreated from the limelight of a discussion >that has gravitated to rather juvenile groppling. Those with more juvenile >personalities have remained and have been joined by sleepers crawling out >of the cracks of the woodwork like scavengers cleaning up after a great >feast or slaughter, which ever way you view the discussion. > >Personally I have enjoyed observing the discussion. How about a new newsgroup: >comp.sys.3b1.discussions where people can argue over things that they have >no knowledge about ? without being unduly criticized ?? After all, this group >is loaded with VERY opinionated readers with VERY LARGE egos. You're entitled to your opinion, but it is not necessarily correct. First, the original discussion took place in unix-pc.general, which is not the same as comp.sys.3b1 (technical error on your part). Second, you clearly misunderstand the background of these groups (which is important to understand before ``analyzing'' what happened). The unix-pc groups came about as a means of support for particular products which had been discontinued by their manufacturer and vendor. They (the groups) are a means of sharing information about the machines, and are a source of assistance and information for those who may have encountered some problem with their equipment. Unlike most newsgroups, there have been very few ``flame wars''. Except for the occasional posting from IBM users who incorrectly assumed that the unix-pc groups were for posting regarding running some variety of the UNIX(R) operating system on IBM PC's, the postings were well focused on the topic of the 3B1/7300. Mikie's postings were clearly inflammatory, and were resented by many readers (as evidenced by the responses). They added nothing in the way of support for the 7300/3B1. Dennis, your posting also seems to be somewhat inflammatory. I don't care to see a repeat of the Mikie Shea flamefest, if you wish to discuss this further, please use electronic mail. It is peculiar that you should post on this topic at this time, since (thank goodness) Mikie Shea and the furor which he started have long been gone. Are you deliberately trying to start up anither flamefest? Alternatively, you can observe discussions ``where people can argue over things that (sic) they have no knowledge about'' in other newsgroups. That's not what unic-pc and comp.sys groups are for. Finally, I note that Mikie Shea has not seen fit to post an apology to the readers of this group, and especially to Gil. Such an apology is warranted. >\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ >the sleeper > >juvenile -- Bruce Lilly blilly!balilly!bruce@sonyd1.Broadcast.Sony.COM
gil@limbic.ssdl.com (Gil Kloepfer Jr.) (02/17/91)
In article <1991Feb16.204911.21017@kodak.kodak.com> zientara@kodak.kodak.com (Dennis Zientara) writes: >I have been monitoring the discussion about the doctor through it's >entire cycle. It has been interesting to say the least. If you had been monitoring the whole line of discussion, it would be plainly apparent to you who the individuals are who you're talking about. >I noticed that everyone who got involved, did so voluntarily. Nobody >was forced to read or participate. That is correct. >I saw that many immature participants responded with obsenity and/or >profanity. Others also obviously immature, tried to participate by >having the biggest mouth :-) Still others tried to prevail by virtue >of sheer volume of postings. I've noticed about 10 articles (tops) out of the 100 or so over that course of time in this newsgroup. Hardly enough to warrant volume of postings. I did request that folks refrain from continuing the discussion in this group any further, and I ask again that they please do so. It does nothing but hurt this community, as you'll see later. >The literally hundreds and hundreds of postings with reasonable prices >seems to indicate that: > 1) Although the Doctor's view wasn't popular, it was very > correct. Let's call him Dr Who ;-) I don't think that you're fairly defining the term "reasonable." I also have looked at the prices of equipment sold in the 3B1 market. They indicated that my prices were in-line with what other people were asking for same. Since everything except a keyboard, disk drive, and 2 3b1s have been sold, I can't say that my prices were at all out-of-line. In fact, I still get e-mail messages daily inquiring about the voice power boards that I've already sold. If the prices were at all out-of-line, "I'll repeat for emphasis" that there would be nobody wishing to buy it, regardless of how desperate they were to buy a piece of computer hardware. So the points you are trying to make regarding the show of support are moot. I have received both e-mail messages and phone calls regarding this, and all of them have been positive. I feel that's support enough. The friends I have made through the net would give me a stern word of advice if I had been attempting to rip them off. With the exception of one person, that was not the case. >I also noticed that many of the original respondents like Jan, Lenny, >Augustine, and more have wisely retreated from the limelight of a discussion >that has gravitated to rather juvenile groppling. Jan doesn't post comparatively all that often; Augustine has helped by staying out of the discussion; and Lenny has too many matters of a personal nature to deal with to waste his time in discussions like this. I, also, have too much to do to waste my time on things like this. You might have also included John Milton, Bob Granvin, Mike ("Ford") Ditto, Dave Brierley, etc. in your list of people who have contributed a great deal to this newsgroup. I *personally* know most of the people on this group who do the posting, and we all respect each other for our individual talents. I've seen absolutely *NO* positive contributions from the people who have bitched about the prices for the equipment I've sold, or who have supported Mikie. I am going to conclude this entire thread of discussion by saying that I refuse to attempt to justify my points any further in regard to this utter bullshit. If Mike Shea is really a Doctor, or even a person at that, then let him get the balls up to send me a copy of his so-called article (or, better yet, post it on the net so that Bob Granvin and others can read it). My apologies to the net for mentioning in public the reasons why ureka might be losing mail/news. I really feel that after all the time I spent helping others through this medium, that this is not the kind of treatment I deserve. Dennis, you can start by taking over from where I left off... -- Gil Kloepfer, Jr. gil@limbic.ssdl.com ...!ames!limbic!gil Southwest Systems Development Labs (Div of ICUS) Houston, Texas "There are beautiful people I wish would have never opened their mouths, because such ugliness oozes out." Philosophy Prof. at NYIT
dwn@swbatl.sbc.com (David Neill-OKCy Mktg 405-278-4007) (02/18/91)
Regarding article <1991Feb16.204911.21017@kodak.kodak.com by zientara@kodak.kodak.com (Dennis Zientara): What I really, really, REALLY don't want to see is a posting in about 3 weeks about "Dr. Dennis" doing research by posting in this newsgroup. Far as I'm concerned, until Mike Shea's research turns up in some official form, he's a complete HORSE'S ASS, and Gil's a good guy, possbily deserving of net.godship (who confers?). And if the research DOES turn up, them may Mike Shea be forever remembered as Dr. HORSE'S ASS, and Gil will still be a good guy. -- name & address (this account) -> dwn@swbatl.sbc.com David Neill office -> 405-291-1990 -> ..texbell!oktext!mktco Mgr - Mktg.(SWBTCo) home -> 405-843-4464 -> ..texbell!oktext!frodo!david