bobp@gti.apollo.hp.com (Bob Plencner) (06/03/91)
I'm looking for facts/comments on the PC coprocessor
for the AT&T 7300 PC.
Speed - Is it equivalent to the 4mhz or 8mhz
PC-XT ??
Software - What kind of software have you had
luck/no luck running on this board ?
Disk - How much space does the support for
the board (drivers ?) take up ? Also,
how is disk space allocated for the
coprocessor's "C:" drive ?
Graphics - Does the board only run in text mode,
or can it use the 7300's bit-mapped
graphics ??
Mouse - Can the mouse be used for DOS applications
that support the mouse ??
Installing - Any difficulty installing the hardware
or software ?? Any revs to stay away
from ??
Any other comments on the board ??
Thanks,
Bob Plencnerthad@public.BTR.COM (Thaddeus P. Floryan) (06/04/91)
In article <1991Jun3.155221.11868@apollo.hp.com> bobp@gti.apollo.hp.com (Bob Plencner) writes: > > I'm looking for facts/comments on the PC coprocessor >for the AT&T 7300 PC. >[...] The best way to answer some of the question(s) is by example (and humor :-). Enclosed are some ls listings from one of my 3B1 sporting a DOS-73 card. Among some of the software known to run just fine are included Turbo C 2.0, WordPerfect 5.1, MicroEmacs 3.10, ProComm Plus, LOTUS 1-2-3, dBase II, and quite a LOT from the net archives such as comp.binaries.ibm.pc which doesn't require exotic video cards. If you get the pax2exe stuff (from the comp.binaries.ibm.pc) then you'll also be able to create/process tar and cpio archives in DOS; pax2exe is the DOS version of the UNIX/POSIX ustar "pax" program. Numerous other useful net-available utilities operating fine with DOS-73 include ls, help, various shells, etc. so check the net archives. Commercial software that DOESN'T work (due to copy-protection) includes Symphony 1.1 (1.0 does work), Microsoft Word, Microsoft Chart, dBase III, Framework, PFS:Graph, and WordStar 2000 version 1.00 (1.01 and above do work). (I haven't tried any of those, just copied that list from the DOS-73 manual). The DOS-73 card "essentially" mimics the operation of DOS software displayed on a Hercules monochrome monitor at 720x348. The "Ford driving simulator" didn't run. Ephemeris runs when re-compiled to use ANSI screen sequences (contrasted with its damnable default writing-direct-to-the-hardware-which-is- all-too-typical-of-DOS-weenies); runs even better with an 8087-2 (8 MHz). In general, the DOS-73 subsystem is a PC-XT at 8 MHz running MS-DOS 3.1, with 512K RAM. I am NOT aware of any way to upgrade to 640K (or more). For the very few things for which I must use "DOS" the DOS-73 operates nicely; and, for my sanity, I'm pleased MicroEMACS functions well ... no way in hell would I tolerate "edlin" (though it (edlin) does work). DOS-73 filesystems are simply large UNIX files; see the first "ls" below for what I chose for use on one of my systems: 20MB; that's the "dvd000" (for DOS virtual disk number 000) file (one could have up to 256 with up to 12 per user size-limited by free-space on your UNIX HD). About the only other significant package I've heard that didn't run was TurboTax for 1990 (required too much RAM); previous years' versions did run. If you get a "real" IBM MS-DOS 3.1 software package (in the slipcase), you can copy that stuff to, say, another directory on the DOS-73 subsystem and include that directory in your path and run some items that did NOT accompany the DOS-73 software release (e.g. label, etc.). MS-DOS' "diskcopy" (to copy floppies) does NOT work (at least it didn't last time I tried; I suspect the reason being it assumes a "proper" floppy disk controller to which it can read/write the chip's registers whereas the DOS-73 card interfaces via software to UNIX for all peripheral I/O except the onboard COM2: port (which, by the way, works nicely with ProComm PLUS)). Other DOS 3.1 thingies that do NOT work are FORMAT.COM, BACKUP.COM, SYS.COM, RESTORE.COM, and RECOVER.COM (presumably for the same reason). I got my "IBM MS-DOS 3.1" package at a flea market for $10; I wish you the same success, because the additional docs (especially for someone like me whose slogan is "MS-DOS vadanya" :-) are very useful (the DOS-73 docs assume one is already relatively familiar with DOS). Note that Emmet Gray's "mtools" package version 2 for UNIX operates just great with the DOS-73 card; I can { copy | rename | dir | del | etc. } just fine on the DOS subsystem from UNIX and note that the third command example (below) was executed from DOS and that the fourth is the display of a file copied from the DOS partition per "mcopy c:crap .". One can use both A: (the UNIX floppy) and C: (D: ... N:) (the /usr/bin/DOS/dvd*) from the DOS-73 subsystem. About the only real annoyance is that the DOS subsystem doesn't come up with the correct date & time automatically (in my case, it's off by 7 or 8 hours due to some braindamage re: time zones even though I have the correct stuff in my config.sys.) If you "do" the typical DOS stuff and set the date & time from the console in your AUTOEXEC.BAT then all will be fine during your DOS session. And, though *I* haven't tried this, I've heard that one can even use the DOS-73 remotely once you call into UNIX and start DOS. Only *ONE* DOS session can be active at a time (since there's only one card; hmmm, wonder what would happen if someone put six DOS-73 cards in a system (using an expansion chassis)?. If someone wants to loan me some additional cards, I'll try it ... yowza, a multi- tasking DOS!?!? That's gotta be better than OS/2, right! Consider: OS/2 OS -- 2 1/2 OS Half = 1/2 Half-OS :-) BTW, the DOS-73 *DOES* work in a 3B1/UNIXPC Expansion chassis. Hope all the above helps; listings follow. BTW, that "DOSapple" (below) is *NOT* a Mac emulator (at least it didn't do anything useful when I started it up and rapidly waved a 7.0 MacOS CD-ROM disk in front of the monitor :-) tlabs6 ksh 10830/10831> ls -l /usr/bin/DOS* -rwsr-xr-x 1 root users 129846 Dec 13 04:43 /usr/bin/DOS-73 -rwxrwxrwx 1 root bin 485 Dec 13 04:43 /usr/bin/DOS-73.sh -rwxrwxrwx 1 root bin 69124 Dec 13 04:44 /usr/bin/DOSapple -rwxrwxrwx 1 root bin 70980 Dec 13 04:44 /usr/bin/DOSconfig -rwsr-xr-x 1 root users 72984 Dec 13 04:45 /usr/bin/DOSdisk -rwxrwxrwx 1 root bin 3926 Dec 13 04:45 /usr/bin/DOSformat -rwxrwxrwx 1 root bin 1146 Dec 13 04:45 /usr/bin/DOSformat.sh -rwxrwxrwx 1 root bin 72470 Dec 13 04:45 /usr/bin/DOSinstall -rwxrwxrwx 1 root bin 72174 Dec 13 04:45 /usr/bin/DOSremove /usr/bin/DOS: total 40251 -rw-rw-rw- 1 root bin 23210 Dec 13 04:43 COMMAND.COM -rw-rw-rw- 1 root bin 50944 Dec 13 04:46 MS-DOS -rw-rw-rw- 1 root bin 50688 Dec 13 04:46 MS-DOSRM -rw-rw-rw- 1 root bin 2611 Dec 13 04:46 dc73.h -rw-rw-rw- 1 root root 20480000 Jun 4 01:30 dvd000 tlabs6 ksh 10830/10831> ls -l /etc/lddrv/*dc* -rwxrwxrwx 1 root users 25633 Dec 26 03:24 /etc/lddrv/dc73 -rw-rw-rw- 1 root root 5946 Dec 13 04:46 /etc/lddrv/dc73.o -rw-r--r-- 1 root users 120 Dec 26 03:23 /etc/lddrv/ifile.dc73 tlabs6 ksh 10830/10831> mdir c: Volume in drive C is DOS HD Directory for C:/ COMMAND COM 23210 5-14-85 12:02a ASSIGN COM 1509 5-14-85 12:02a ATTRIB EXE 15091 5-14-85 12:02a CHKDSK COM 9435 5-14-85 12:02a DEBUG COM 15552 5-14-85 12:02a EDLIN COM 7261 5-14-85 12:02a EXE2BIN EXE 2816 5-14-85 12:02a FIND EXE 6403 5-14-85 12:02a JOIN EXE 15971 5-14-85 12:02a LINK EXE 38422 5-14-85 12:02a MORE COM 282 5-14-85 12:02a PRINT COM 8291 5-14-85 12:02a SHARE EXE 8304 5-14-85 12:02a SORT EXE 1664 5-14-85 12:02a SUBST EXE 16611 5-14-85 12:02a PM EXE 1408 10-21-85 3:12p EXITDOS COM 1024 8-15-85 7:15p MOUSE COM 16 9-08-85 2:05p AUTOEXEC BAT 91 12-17-90 2:51a ANSI SYS 1664 9-19-85 11:56a FC EXE 14576 5-15-85 12:00a FMDESK <DIR> 12-12-90 5:07a DIGILINK <DIR> 12-12-90 11:13p EPROM-1 <DIR> 12-12-90 11:13p DOS-3V10 <DIR> 12-13-90 12:44a AMIGA <DIR> 12-12-90 11:21p UTILS <DIR> 12-13-90 1:11a WORK <DIR> 12-13-90 1:12a PROCOMM <DIR> 12-13-90 1:47a EPHEM <DIR> 12-13-90 2:15a CONFIG BAK 45 12-15-90 8:47p FORDSIM <DIR> 12-15-90 5:51a GAMES <DIR> 12-17-90 2:57a STUFF <DIR> 12-20-90 2:22a CONFIG SYS 46 6-02-91 11:55p EMACS TUT 30327 6-04-91 1:19a 36 File(s) 7512064 bytes free { now entering the DOS-73 subsystem I did: C:\> dir > crap and then exited DOS (the "-t" below converts CR-LF to UNIX' LF end-of-line) } tlabs6 ksh 10830/10831> mcopy -t c:crap . tlabs6 ksh 10830/10831> cat crap Volume in drive C is DOS HD Directory of C:\ COMMAND COM 23210 5-14-85 12:02a ASSIGN COM 1509 5-14-85 12:02a ATTRIB EXE 15091 5-14-85 12:02a CHKDSK COM 9435 5-14-85 12:02a DEBUG COM 15552 5-14-85 12:02a EDLIN COM 7261 5-14-85 12:02a EXE2BIN EXE 2816 5-14-85 12:02a FIND EXE 6403 5-14-85 12:02a JOIN EXE 15971 5-14-85 12:02a LINK EXE 38422 5-14-85 12:02a MORE COM 282 5-14-85 12:02a PRINT COM 8291 5-14-85 12:02a SHARE EXE 8304 5-14-85 12:02a SORT EXE 1664 5-14-85 12:02a SUBST EXE 16611 5-14-85 12:02a PM EXE 1408 10-21-85 3:12p EXITDOS COM 1024 8-15-85 7:15p MOUSE COM 16 9-08-85 2:05p AUTOEXEC BAT 91 12-17-90 2:51a ANSI SYS 1664 9-19-85 11:56a FC EXE 14576 5-15-85 12:00a FMDESK <DIR> 12-12-90 5:07a DIGILINK <DIR> 12-12-90 11:13p EPROM-1 <DIR> 12-12-90 11:13p DOS-3V10 <DIR> 12-13-90 12:44a AMIGA <DIR> 12-12-90 11:21p UTILS <DIR> 12-13-90 1:11a WORK <DIR> 12-13-90 1:12a PROCOMM <DIR> 12-13-90 1:47a EPHEM <DIR> 12-13-90 2:15a CONFIG BAK 45 12-15-90 8:47p FORDSIM <DIR> 12-15-90 5:51a GAMES <DIR> 12-17-90 2:57a STUFF <DIR> 12-20-90 2:22a CONFIG SYS 46 6-02-91 11:55p EMACS TUT 30327 6-04-91 1:19a CRAP 0 6-03-91 2:21a 37 File(s) 7503872 bytes free Thad Floryan [ thad@btr.com (OR) {decwrl, mips, fernwood}!btr!thad ]
car@ramecs.UUCP (Chris Rende) (06/09/91)
References: <1991Jun3.155221.11868@apollo.hp.com> From article <1991Jun3.155221.11868@apollo.hp.com>, by bobp@gti.apollo.hp.com (Bob Plencner): > > I'm looking for facts/comments on the PC coprocessor > for the AT&T 7300 PC. > > Software - What kind of software have you had > luck/no luck running on this board ? DBase IV won't run due to lack of RAM. In general, you can forget anything that needs more than 512k. :-( > Also, how is disk space allocated for the > coprocessor's "C:" drive ? You pick how much disk space to allocate to the C: drive. Increments are in 1k bytes. Also, if you want a D: drive, you pick how much space it gets. You can have as many drives as you want - kind of handy. I have a minimal C: drive setup that contains DOS and the necessary basic utilities need to run DOS-73. My C: takes up 2 Meg. When I need to do something, I just create another virtual drive with enough space to work in. Each user has a DOS-73 config file in their directory that handles the mapping between the Unix pseudo hard drive files and the MSDOS logical disks. For example: -rw-rw-rw- 1 root root 2048000 May 26 22:46 dvd000 (Mapped to C:) -rw-rw-rw- 1 root root 3072000 Mar 24 21:57 dvd001 (Mapped to D:) -rw-rw-rw- 1 root root 2560000 May 26 22:46 dvd002 (Mapped to E:) Additionally, one MSDOS disk can be mapped to the current Unix directory. This gives an easy way to move files back and forth between Unix and MSDOS. > Graphics - Does the board only run in text mode, > or can it use the 7300's bit-mapped > graphics ?? It has a text mode. It also emulates hercules graphics. However! only 80% or 90% of the graphics screen is visable at a given time, you have to press 3b1 function keys to view the hidden part of the graphics screen. Kind of a pain but at least it's doable. One important note about how the coprocessor works... Whether the DOS side is in graphics mode or text mode the DOS system makes changes to (what I'll call) video memory on the DOS coprocessor. The DOS73 driver constantly reads the DOS video memory and updates the 3b1 DOS73 window to reflect the changes. This can produce strange effects for DOS programs which update the screen rapidly or in real time. Flight simulator is one example. > Mouse - Can the mouse be used for DOS applications > that support the mouse ?? Yes. > Installing - Any difficulty installing the hardware > or software ?? Any revs to stay away > from ?? My 3b1 can with it all installed. > Any other comments on the board ?? The MSDOS floppy drives A: and B: are translated to access the 3b1 floppy drive. The MSDOS printer is redirected to the Unix print spooler. You can leave an application running on the DOS-73 system even after disconnecting from it. Great for intense chess games against the computer if you leave your system on all the time. One thing I miss is that there is no audio output for the DOS-73 system. :-( You also cannot boot the DOS-73 card from floppy - only from a Unix psuedo disk. It's a nice product - I like it. car. -- Christopher A. Rende Central Cartage (Nixdorf/Pyramid/SysVR2/BSD4.3) uunet!edsews!rphroy!trux!car Multics,DTSS,Unix,Shortwave,Scanners,UnixPC/3B1 car@trux.mi.org Minix 1.2,PC/XT,Mac+,TRS-80 Model I,1802 ELF trux!ramecs!car "I don't ever remember forgetting anything." - Chris Rende
jfv@cbnewsk.att.com (j.f.van valkenburg) (06/10/91)
After hearing all the good comments about the DOS-73 - I have the hardware but the system didn't come with any DOCS or software. Anyone have a set for sale? Thanks, ------------------------ James F. Van Valkenburg a.k.a. "van" AT&T Attmail: !jfv jfv@cbnewsk.att.com Atlanta, GA. Voice 404-810-7920 =============================================================================== ---- Standard Disclaimers included -- Just another grunt at AT&T ---- ===============================================================================